Cloning

DeletedUser25825

Howdy folks. I was reading an article today ( http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110117/wl_asia_afp/japansciencemammoth_20110117104445 ) about Japanese scientists who intend on beginning a five year project. This project involves removing tissue from the long extinct Wooly Mammoth, which is being stored by a Russian research lab. Once removed, the scientists will remove the nuclei of the mammoth cells and insert them into an elephant's egg cell, from which the nuclei have been removed. This will thereby create a viable embryo with mammoth genes in theory, and result in the first live mammoth seen on Earth since the Ice Age.

There are several implications that I can immediately think of, but am curious as to what other people think about this.
 

DeletedUser

I'm thinking.... this would make for an interresting dish.
Mammoth burgers. Yummy!

Other than that I'd like to add there is a reason the mammoth went extinct.
Todays climate may not suit him.
 

DeletedUser

And soon they'll get their hands on some T-Rex DNA and we all knows what happens then. I see no reason in bringing extinct creatures back to life.
 

DeletedUser

Ugh, paranoia. I think it's a great idea. A living specimen provides ample opportunity to examine the facets of a creature, both physical and behavioral. It will allow scientists to develop their skills at performing such actions. The reanimation of creatures is much easier than reanimation of plants. It is a greater goal to do the latter, as there are great opportunities to open up new avenues of research, medicinal purposes and otherwise. Creating a theme park or introducing disruptive species into various ecosystems, on the other hand, that's merchants attempting to exploit scientific discovery and being otherwise irresponsible.
 
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DeletedUser

Creating a theme park or introducing disruptive species into various ecosystems, on the other hand, that's merchants attempting to exploit scientific discovery and being otherwise irresponsible.

And once it becomes a reality there is no stopping them. At first they start off with creatures who are a bit less exotic and dangerous, but eventually they move on to the ones the people really want to see: unstoppable and uncontrollable predators. Jurassic park will become a reality. Imagine one instead of the zoo in Central Park.
 

DeletedUser

Oh come on now. Sure we might be bringing back the mammoth now, but I'm sure nobody's stupid enough to try a stupid stunt like bringing back a T-Rex. Besides, what animal can support a T-Rex?

Besides, the real thing we should fear is raptors. Don't know what animal can support a raptor either. A mammoth makes sense. Sabertooth cat's can probably be brought back too (tigers and lions). We can bring back the mammals, but I'm positive, 90% positive, that there are no large enough reptiles to support and recreate dinosaurs.
 

DeletedUser25825

Not to mention, it's impossible. The only reason the cloning the mammoth MAY be a viable process, is they're using tissue samples that were trapped and frozen within permafrost layers. They finally have figured out how to extract DNA from frozen cells, which before recently was improbable due to damage wrought to cells by freezing. Check me if I'm wrong... but dinosaurs are fossils i.e. Rocks.
 

DeletedUser25632

Not to mention, it's impossible. The only reason the cloning the mammoth MAY be a viable process, is they're using tissue samples that were trapped and frozen within permafrost layers. They finally have figured out how to extract DNA from frozen cells, which before recently was improbable due to damage wrought to cells by freezing. Check me if I'm wrong... but dinosaurs are fossils i.e. Rocks.

and in some of those Fossils there is DNA they can extract, now whether or not it would be enough to where they could attempt something like this is unknown. They could continue to find bones, find the DNA and hopefully extract what you were missing and somehow piece them all together. Impossible? Probably not.
 

Sambee

The West Team
Forum moderator
I think the only things they should be cloning are the animals that are endangered. That'd be a much better use of time and money.

As for bringing mammoths and dinosaurs back, i'd like it to happen but like Alawa said it is nearly impossible. Yes dinosaurs are fossils now and even the bones that they have found are nearly useless because the cells are all dead.
As the article says, elephants are the closest relation to the mammoths thats why they're using the elephant egg. Even being the closest relative doesn't mean that the egg will accept the mammoth cell. Just like organ transplants. you need the closest matching tissue and blood type to be able to have it done. BUT, the body will still try to get rid of the new organ because it isn't it's own.

As for climate, Thats easy enough to manage. All they need is to build another enclosure in the zoo and turn it into a giant freezer.
 

DeletedUser

And once it becomes a reality there is no stopping them. At first they start off with creatures who are a bit less exotic and dangerous, but eventually they move on to the ones the people really want to see: unstoppable and uncontrollable predators. Jurassic park will become a reality. Imagine one instead of the zoo in Central Park.
Slippery slope fallacy. One act does not necessarily result in another act, etc and so on.

We should avoid pulling a tooth, because eventually we'll pull all our teeth out!!! omg... slippery slope.
 

DeletedUser

eh... it's ought to happen some day... I just hope they don't get to humans. That's worse than a jurasic park.For most of the people it will be like Iran accepting Aylar Lie... they would rather smash her head against some rocks and then run her over by a train, thet's being hit by a plane that has an atomic bomb on board etc. etc.(you get the point). And I think it's wrong too for that matter.

On another matter I would eat some mammoth burgers.
 

DeletedUser

Im just saying that they should be really careful with whom they plan to clone. Even if you exclude the human factor, the creatures themselves might brake loose and wreck havoc on local natural communities. For all we know it could have the same effect as bringing rabbits to Australia.
 

DeletedUser

I just can't see as how mammoths run amok in Japan would equate to rabbit overpopulation in Australia. ;)
 

DeletedUser

Cloning of dinosaurs is practically impossible unless we have time machines to get DNA samples and surrogate mothers.
AFAIK we don't have any dino DNA at the moment, let alone a complete genome of a single species. Even with having that, breeding becomes an impossible task without a species to implant that DNA into.

Being able to clone mammoths and other recently extinct species (i.e. Tasmanian wolf) or soon to be extinct species (i.e. tigers, pandas, etc) to preserve them at least in zoos, is generally a good idea.
 

DeletedUser22575

Im just saying that they should be really careful with whom they plan to clone. Even if you exclude the human factor, the creatures themselves might brake loose and wreck havoc on local natural communities. For all we know it could have the same effect as bringing rabbits to Australia.

The Aborigine probable said the same thing about those who came to Australia. :laugh:
 

DeletedUser16008

If the technology exists it will be tested and tried .... cant put the genie back in the bottle and thats that.

As for the paranoia aspect ? well im sure human cloning is well on its way along with all kinds of things, still its nothing to be concerned about itll happen whatever is said and done anyway. It will be used mostly for the better and will well outweigh the downside. Unless you are bothered about having the boys from brazil scenario which is also highly unlikely.

Be concerned if they find a solution to aging because at that point they will have opened a real Pandoras box.
 

Diggo11

Well-Known Member
Hehe, there you go again with that slippery slope fallacy.
Perhaps a fallacious argument, but if this attempt is actually both viable and successful, it will be tried again. As you stated earlier, bringing an extinct organism back into existence for scientific research is a good thing. So once we've learnt all we can from mammoths, it is a logical assumption some other alternate life form will be cloned to further extend scientific knowledge. For example, if you ever want to clone plants for such medicinal purposes, you'll have to test your scientific method on something other than mammoths. Apart from the obvious fact plants are not mammoths, I would suggest that making the 'jump' between merely cloning one species of animal to a variety of plants is improbable, if not impossible.

But what do I actually think of cloning? Meh. If they want to bring back a mammoth from extinction for testing, I wish them luck discovering something useful to broader scientific knowledge. If they start bringing recently eradicated species back from the dead, meh, if the reintroduction of the species is viable then thumbs up to them.

If they want to clone 500 mammoths to overrun the streets of Tokyo, then lol. There is a reason these animals don't walk the earth today - the climate is not suitable for their survival. Above that, it is my understanding that unless we have mass amounts of DNA, they couldn't get enough genetic variation to encourage successful offspring equipped for survival anyway. If they actually can reproduce without having two heads or five legs, their inability to adapt to climate change in addition to the presently unsuitable climate would knock them yet again.

As for the possibility of human cloning - good luck with that. At this stage I'll jump on the slippery slope fallacy train hehe. Whilst I can imagine us having the ability to replace faulty organs in a heart beat, cloning brains or bodies would more than likely cause so much public outrage it wouldn't be permitted to occur. And that's assuming such possibilities became realities during any of our respective lifetimes, or even at all, which also is not a guarantee.
 
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DeletedUser

Agreed, but the argument presented by eliel007 is an argument of doom-saying and is thus a slippery slope fallacy. When the technology becomes available, it is reasonable to deduce that additional species will be attempted. That is logical, and not a slippery slope fallacy. But to assume worst case scenario with this, to paint a dark picture of dogs and cats raining from the skies, ecosystems wiped out of existence, etc and so on... that's just getting silly.

Hell, we're doing enough of that just by cloning Republicans to get a majority in the House!
 
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