Change the Fort battle formulas

DeletedUser

Proposal
Changing the existent fort battle formulas.

Current Workaround
Non existent. Or if that is workaraound, everyone beef up and chase away normal players from the forts.

Details
Currently we have formulas that are based on leadership, hiding, stamina, dodging and aim. With current set up there is no much difference between having 150 or 40 on those skills. And there is large influence on hit rate from overall HP of the team.
My suggestion is to have proportional growth of dodge/hit rate till the value of 150 of aforementioned skills with no effect whatsoever from the HP. (for example if you have 20 on fort skills and 400 on health you can count with miserable hit/dodge rate)

Abuse Prevention
Current system is abused, this is a way to fix it.

Visual Aids
None

Summary
This would effectively put a stop to elitist fort fights in which outcome is already well known. And only way to play is to beef up to HP beast.

Administration
Does this idea meet the Ideas Guidelines & Criteria? Yes/No
Does this idea appear on any of the Previously Suggested Ideas List? Yes/No
 

DeletedUser22575

I think the Neo/Kaypaddler suggestions for changing fort battle skills was much better.
 

DeletedUser

The only thing I saw from kayak was quantifying my diminishing returns for health. I don't remember seeing anything about changing other skills.

Edit: nm, I see it now.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

DeletedUser22575

Elmyr said:
The only thing I saw from kayak was quantifying my diminishing returns for health. I don't remember seeing anything about changing other skills.

Edit: nm, I see it now.
Click to expand...

Yes, sorry, I forgot to mention your input on diminishing returns for health which should be included with it i think.
 

DeletedUser

No need just increase the skill values
CURRENTLY

* +1 bonus with one point
* +2.04 bonus with 6 points
* +3.03 bonus with 16 points
* +4 bonus with 32 points
* +5 bonus with 56 points
* +6 bonus with 88 points
* +7.01 bonus with 130 points
* +8 bonus with 181 points
* +9 bonus with 243 points
* +10 bonus with 316 points

UPDATE

* +1 bonus with one point
* +2.5 bonus with 6 points
* +4 bonus with 16 points
* +5 bonus with 32 points
* +6.5 bonus with 56 points
* +8 bonus with 88 points
* +10 bonus with 130 points
* +13 bonus with 181 points
* +16 bonus with 243 points
* +20 bonus with 316 points

Well something like this, health points wont be worth having as much devaluing them against attack/defence values.

Another option would be to massively increase stamina and hidding this way you can be more benifical as an attack or defender.

For Stamina and hidding skill value only :

* +2 bonus with one point
* +3 bonus with 6 points
* +5 bonus with 16 points
* +9 bonus with 32 points
* +12 bonus with 56 points
* +18 bonus with 88 points
* +23 bonus with 130 points
* +30 bonus with 181 points
* +35 bonus with 243 points
* +40 bonus with 316 points

Anyways just afew ways without messing with health points, but decreasing the value of health points in battle.
 

DeletedUser

Are those formulas official? Or are they just the result of some research made by players? If they are not official, there is no reason in asking the game designers to change formulas that were never officially stated by them.
 

DeletedUser28121

* +1 bonus with one point
* +2.04 bonus with 6 points
* +3.03 bonus with 16 points
* +4 bonus with 32 points
* +5 bonus with 56 points
* +6 bonus with 88 points
* +7.01 bonus with 130 points
* +8 bonus with 181 points
* +9 bonus with 243 points
* +10 bonus with 316 points


FF formulas are know for quite some time now and were released by the devs i suppose... while they correspond to our att and def values in fort battle window (are calculable) its also pretty evident that those skills have little or nothing to do with how much u dodge or hit and thats what this suggestion is trying to rectify....
 

DeletedUser

They have everything to do with your performance - you're just forgetting that tower bonuses are too huge, that the distance between players lowers the successful hit chance and that 140 attackers with current best fort fighting weaponry can't at least halve the health of a pure HP soldier on a soldier tower in the first round which is rediculous.
 

DeletedUser9470

JoxerTM said:
They have everything to do with your performance - you're just forgetting that tower bonuses are too huge, that the distance between players lowers the successful hit chance and that 140 attackers with current best fort fighting weaponry can't at least halve the health of a pure HP soldier on a soldier tower in the first round which is rediculous.
Click to expand...

thats cos thre isnt 140 people actually shooting at him...
that said, it doesnt matter what char you are, soldier or other, its the same story.

HP...
 

DeletedUser30834

I agree somewhat with JoxerTM.

According to the dev blogs, the official formula for fort skills is to raise the value of the skill to a .4 then add it to the next skill in the action and then other bonuses like the basic fort bonus or tower or sector or whatever. the only difference is with soldiers that get a character bonus for leadership and you need to multiply the leadership by 1.25 or 1.50 (premium character bonus) before raising the value of the leadership to .4. This is illustrated in the dev blogs on a page attempting to show the differences between worker and soldier bonuses.

I have my skills and gear set up to where I can get some serious defense bonuses to dodging a shot. When in this gear, I dodge about two to three times or more the numbers of hits I take. I don't always wear it because I also miss about 3 shots for every one shot I hit with it on. If I expect to hit relatively accurately, I mix the gear a bit and instead, hit about 60-90 percent of my shots, and dodge about twice as many as I am hit with.

If the skills had nothing to do with performance, the gear differences wouldn't be that noticeable. Now with HP, it's still a very large player in the game. If the average hit is 300 points of damage and you can raise your HP by 600 points, you have effectively traded two dodges for more HP. Because you raise the value of a skill to a partial number, there will come a sweet spot in your character where you see more benefit from adding HP then to other skills. I do more then just fort fight so I need skills in other areas for jobbing and to play with the new quests so around 4-5k hp for me is about all I can give right now.

the problem with making the skills value too powerful is that it will still favor high level players. With the diminishing returns as it is, lower level players can get a better chance at a dodge or hit bonus and with crafting, they can get a bonus almost the same as a level 80 or 90 pure fort fighter.

Where I disagree with JoxerTM on this is that the tower bonus seem to be a little weak to me with all the high hitting guns in battle now. The thing is, you generally get 100% of the starting attackers which by default is more then the defenders, shooting at only 40-50% of the defenders. It's a line of sight game where you try to limit the number of guns shooting at your side while directing and concentrating the shots from your side and the attackers have the advantage from the start because of limited spaces with Line of sight.

I do not think anything regarding fort battles need to be changed unless it's what people understand about the game or allowing more spaces along the walls and towers.
 

DeletedUser

It's beginning to sound like restricting certain types of forts to certain ranges of levels is, perhaps, the only solution to combat elitism.
 

DeletedUser30834

What exactly is this elitism that you're talking about which needs to be combated?

I couldn't fathom any reasoning behind needing to limit any forts to combat between any level ranges. What exactly is the problem as you see it?
 

DeletedUser

the fact that lower levels are shut out of fort battles. allocating forts would help with this.
 

DeletedUser30834

I've never seen lower levels shut out of fort battles. I have seen them not get into battle when the battles are full. But the cure to that is already in game, have more battles.

If your town or alliance isn't having enough battles, then move to another or start your own. Any town can dig a battle. You do not need to own a fort or anything to do so. Of course you will need to get some support on your side if you expect to win the battle and I would avoid digging on any alliance that is in a battle until at least 6 hours have passed.

But the problem there is not with the forts, it's with the players and you can easily change that by your own actions in game.
 

DeletedUser

Don't want to move the discussion in the wrong direction, but I'm guilty for saying what I did not mean to say.

It's not just HP, it's fortification bonuses. Player level 0 has rediculously high bonus to attack on the tower.
Unless HP system will not change in forts, these bonuses should work differently. In a way that they boost your existing chance to hit (and to dodge). That way pure HP players would get near to zero bonus on fortifications (not 0 because there is a default 25 chance to hit and 10 chance to dodge for everyone, plus those pure HPers have a bit skillpoints from equipment).
Another way of solving this is to lower fortifications bonuses depending on your total health.

See... I can't understand what logic was used in fortifications bonuses and how is possible to miss a pure HP player on the tower if you're standing just next to him on the wall. And it is happening.
 

DeletedUser

if it was as easy as you said it was, then we wouldn't have this problem, sum.

joxer, perhaps the bonus should be a percentage, say a fully built tower will give you a 20% boost of your hit/miss skill/chance.
 

DeletedUser30834

rice farmer said:
if it was as easy as you said it was, then we wouldn't have this problem, sum.
Click to expand...
What is stopping it from being that easy? Seriously, what is stopping you or me or anyone else from digging our own battles and ranking whomever we choose to rank? What's stopping any town or alliance from digging two battles, one for fun, and one for the serious players? What's stopping any town or alliance from making a sister town and/or alliance to train lower level players and have them dig their own battles? If you are going to play the game to where you are dependent on other people, then at least pick people you are comfortable being dependent upon instead of trying to rework the entire game to something you can keep all the advantages to.

If the argument is simply "I want things this way", then lets not pretend there is a real need.


JoxerTM said:
See... I can't understand what logic was used in fortifications bonuses and how is possible to miss a pure HP player on the tower if you're standing just next to him on the wall. And it is happening.
Click to expand...
I think the rationing to the fort bonuses lays within the line of sight issues presented when defending a fort. If you have a large fort full of attackers and defenders, about 15-20 players will be all that is getting shot at by the 140 other players. Granted, there will be more players shooting back, but because of limited spacing and blockage from the fort itself, only the front row players are shot at until movement happens and line of sight is blocked from others.

Perhaps the bonuses could be tweaked a bit according to HP of the player. I'm not convinced it is necessary. Perhaps tweaking the damage done to HP players based on the amount of skills in use might be a better solution.
 
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