Can We Do This?

Discussion in 'Debate and discussion' started by johannmaximus, Jan 11, 2014.

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  1. johannmaximus

    johannmaximus Well-Known Member

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    Over on the Count to 00000 thread (been active since December 8th, 2008), we got into a discussion about whether humanity should leave this planet and live on other planets. Here's where the real discussion started. My point is that based on current population trends, humanity has to expand to other worlds if we are to survive. Resources will run out as more people place more strain on diminishing material. Some agree and some don't. So I want to hear the Debate and Discussion's opinions, and of course, participate in discussion over the subject.
     
  2. jonduan

    jonduan Well-Known Member

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    Personally i think it would help humanity in more than one ways to live on other planets. IF we manage to figure out a transport system from one world to the other, think of all the resources that could be passed back and forth. I mean The universe is HUGE, theoretically it's bloody infinite, that's a bit intimidating in my opinion, but it also means that there could THOUSANDS maybe MILLIONS of other planets that are similar to earth out there. Think of all that we could discover on them, new types of metals, new types of fuels, new types of food, new types of materials. If we could bring them here to Earth, we will take the next step in our evolution as a society.
    So i don't see any reason why not?
     
  3. tigermite

    tigermite Guest

    Personally I support space exploration, the issue I raised in the thread was an objection to a smaller point (however one very vital).
    Space exploration could grant humanity great resources and possibilities, as Jonduan states above.
    However, if space exploration does begin, then there are two problems that will have to be addressed. The first is to take care not to weaponize space (which would give the controlling country an unparalleled ability to destroy whoever they want, which would inevitably lead to humanity wiping itself out as superpowers endlessly try and build a bigger Death Star) or to act greedily (in the event of discovery of extraterrestrial life forms) and attempt to conquer the universe.
    The second is not to let corporations dominate space exploration, otherwise, as Fight Club deftly points out;

    JACK (V.O.) When deep space exploration ramps up, it will be corporations that name everything. The IBM Stellar Sphere. The Philip Morris Galaxy. Planet Starbucks.
     
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  4. Desi Boukerse

    Desi Boukerse Has gone psycho

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    Finding other planets to live on just supports the theory I picked up in The Matrix

    In which agent Smith says the following to Morpheus:

    Humans are indeed like a virus. We do not care for the things around us. We do not care for balance.
    And in this discussion we are now talking about the sentence i underlined in the quote.

    Movint to another planet will only delay the reall problem. The problem is mankind in itself.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2014
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  5. Zemelci

    Zemelci Well-Known Member

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    So what do you propose instead? Kill all the humans? Kill most of the humans? How are you going to solve the problem? Surely if we can't solve it (and I'm not seeing any solutions yet) it's better to delay the problem until we can find a solution.
     
  6. Desi Boukerse

    Desi Boukerse Has gone psycho

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    There is no solution. In time humans will kill this planet. I am pretty sure of that it will be before we find ways to transport to a planet where we can live as well.
     
  7. jonduan

    jonduan Well-Known Member

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    He does have a point tho Zem, so the way i see it is we can evolve, we can wipe ourselves out, or we can retrieve other resources from other planets to make up for the ones we threw away here.
     
  8. johannmaximus

    johannmaximus Well-Known Member

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    I'm not certain I agree with that. Humanity has had a bloody history,and we don't always get along with each other. But we're not the only mammals that fight each other. Many species fight over land, resources, mating rights, and leadership positions.

    I'm worried about this actually. Right now, it's beginning to look like private corporations are going to be in space first. SpaceX and Virgin Galactic are two that pop to mind. But groups of people like Copenhagen Suborbitals are not controlled by one or a few corporations. I believe that groups like them would be best for the future of space exploration.

    We're not evolving right now. Technology, especially medicine, has allowed humans to survive and multiply who would otherwise not multiply, sometimes not even making it to term. Medicine has also allowed us as a whole to multiply so rapidly that we did create this problem of eventual scarcity in the first place. If we don't destroy ourselves (Carl Sagan thought we would nuke ourselves, and was arrested multiple times during anti nuclear weapon protests), then we might go to space.

    However, at least here in America, the attitude is not right. Sure, many people are interested in space, but it's only a passing interest. Look at who makes the most money. Generally it's those sports stars and movie celebrities (at least they get the most attention, sometimes for very stupid things. Who cares how many children you adopted or that you jumped on a couch on a television programme?). The people we need to be at the forefront of space exploration are oftentimes relegated to teaching at schools, sometimes with barely enough income to survive. I think the only way we will get to space is if governments fund space more, even if it isn't the most popular. Also, general attitudes need to shift more, we need to look up more.
     
  9. neel shah

    neel shah Well-Known Member

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    And what about the resources we waste all these days?
    I am damn sure that if we dont waste them for even a year save it , we can eradicate poverty and everyone even the children in the darkest of Africa can be literate.
    Making everyone literate there is a BIG advantage to it.... you may find a new Einstein or Newton and some important researches on Green Technology... as we are near it... Space Traveling is possible but not to different plantets... its quite hard for now... we still need to develop for maybe a century and then start a new world on a new planet :)
     
  10. johannmaximus

    johannmaximus Well-Known Member

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    It will take a long time to develop faster, more efficient space travel. Right now, it takes over a year to get to Mars, our closest neighbour, with the present technology. Signal delay is a few seconds. We've proven that humans can psychologically survive a flyby mission of that timeframe.

    Resources: Some say we don't waste any; some say we waste all our resources. For example, are we wasting resources when we post on a forum? How about when we listen to music? When we turn our lights on? Driving to and from work? Refrigeration? The issues involved in poverty; what causes it, what can we do to 'fix' it, &c., are varied and widespread. There's no one answer, no single plan that can be implemented to solve poverty (unless you globally lower the definition of poverty so much that nobody falls below that line, but the Onion already talked about that method of solving problems). I do believe that there should be effort made to raise the standard of living throughout the world, but I also understand that it will take a global attitude shift, which might also help with going into space. In this way, those two problems are linked. Perhaps more problems are also linked to space travel.
     
  11. Desi Boukerse

    Desi Boukerse Has gone psycho

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    It is not the fact that we fight eachother. It is the fact that we seem to be worse then rabbits. We reproduce way to fast. We want big houses, big cars, all kinds of food.. stuff like that. We can't even normally spread the wealth we have now. Over half the world lives in poverty.

    I suggest you read some stuff on this site http://www.oosa.unvienna.org/oosa/FAQ/splawfaq.html. One can't simply claim a planet. So major corporations have nothing to gain on other planets at the moment.

    Focussing on looking up is still not going to solve the problems. Do you think we will have world peace or an end to hunger when we are able to reach another planet? That would be just naive. The problems will only spread.
     
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  12. Gandalf Greyhame

    Gandalf Greyhame Well-Known Member

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  13. Victor Kruger

    Victor Kruger Well-Known Member

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    History has the answer, consider this for a moment.

    100 years ago there was little more than the ford popular for travel and flight was barely started.

    There was little medicine no sharing of information and the industrial age had barely gotten into full swing.

    Every technology that comes along now is faster introduced more efficient and more life changing. The curve is accelerating and in fact human action and social skills are finding it hard to keep up with technology.

    Consider the mobile phone, a simple thing yet more powerful in computing than an entire computer dept when i started work in the 70s.

    New tech atm is focusing on nano and new substances man made, molecular level manipulation and bio tech is advancing at an exponential rate.

    Consider the 3d printer and then couple it with some tech that enables molecular redistributuion. In other words imagine being able to rearrange substances and matter to become whatever is required. You have the ability of endless resources at that point or if you prefer a type of star trek type tech and it wouldnt be used for food first. This isnt as implausible as you may think thats pretty much what the mobile phone is to the communicator. Also sliding doors are everywhere since they appeared in sci fi movies in the 50s. Man has a habit of making his dreams real and if we need to move off of planet earth when the need becomes urgent enough that is what i believe will happen.

    To say we cannot and will not escape this planet to explore and colonise before we use the finite resources technology wise is probably a big assumption. We have in fact no idea what may come along to change all that but given history in the past 150 years its a fair bet we will if the tech is out there.

    What we do face is the social upheaval of people living longer and more of the older population being about for longer and out numbering the young being born now. This is the real problem and its one of our own making.

    We know there are other dimensions, we know it is possible to move between them at certainly a micro level. Colonizing space dosnt necessarily mean we will go from earth to our local stars, it could easily mean travelling in a totally different way.

    Heres the thing, it is commonly believed by many the human race is not capable of evolving much further and youd be right looking at the world around us but....... normal people like are posting here KNOW what is wrong and what should change for many to enjoy something like just clean drinking water. We KNOW what needs to be done on the bottom level the problem is WE arnt in a position to make policy and the ones that are dont care enough or have enough vision to do so, they are too tied up in their greed and self serving ideology.

    We have mainly imo a problem in what thinking our leaders have and what drives those policies, it is not the people that are the problem but it is the constructs we have allowed to manifest that keeps us on the wrong path.

    This is a bigger debate than going to the stars for it is the planet bound social problems that is holding us back, but evolve we will for the human race is tenacious and survival is built in. when we are forced to act we will.
     
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  14. Senor Muerte

    Senor Muerte Member

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    Eventually, we will leave.
     
  15. Zemelci

    Zemelci Well-Known Member

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    How do you know we won't wipe ourselves out first?
     
  16. nashy19

    nashy19 Nashy (as himself)

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    Nothing can kill me. I'll just be humanity all by myself.
     
  17. tigermite

    tigermite Guest

    A finer representative could definitely be called for.
     
  18. ARANGER

    ARANGER Guest

    i don't think you need to worry about when we can make it off the planet when the time comes
    you may want to think about who "out there" wants to keep us on it!
     
  19. nashy19

    nashy19 Nashy (as himself)

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    Maybe they'll send some galactic scale antibodies to clear us up.