DeletedUser
a friend that watched the election
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DeletedUser
So, for me, this is claimed by some guy on the internet who heard it from his friend who watched the election...
Well, I suppose this kind of evidence does match the general theme of this thread (as well as the "faked" lunar landing thread)...
DeletedUser
If this wasn't so sad it would be funny. No...I take it back, it is still funny.
DeletedUser
And yet you're still not eligible to be the President.
Totally, I would forget to open the missile silo doors when I'm launching nukes, Im totally not eligible.
Now if I was just doing things to help the economy, I would spin around in my chair all day, then quit.
DeletedUser
Ahh, but then you're not Palin, are you?
DeletedUser
DeletedUser
I watched the election also but I never heard anything like that nor did I read anything about 105%.
Also if I might add .. American/Americans is not spelled americain/americains
DeletedUser
Not true. If you voted for McCain, you're an americain.
DeletedUser
if you voted obama, you're an Amerwecan.
Im neither cause they both sucked at getting my attention. I said they all suck, but if I had to choose mccain or obama I woudl go ahead and say mccain because I like war guys. He would not habe been a very good president, just slightly better than obama.
What we need is another Dwight D. Eisenhower. he wrote his own speeches ya know! He had some wit about him!
Im neither cause they both sucked at getting my attention. I said they all suck, but if I had to choose mccain or obama I woudl go ahead and say mccain because I like war guys. He would not habe been a very good president, just slightly better than obama.
What we need is another Dwight D. Eisenhower. he wrote his own speeches ya know! He had some wit about him!
DeletedUser
There's a small pile of evidence.
1. Obama refused many times to show his birth certificate. A candidate with nothing to hide would show their birth certificate and end it.
2. A birth certificate can be acquired with no proof. A record of birth from a hospital has lots of information on it, such as date of birth, the hospital, the doctor, and the location the birth was in.
3. There's rumors that Obama went to college as a foreign exchange student.
4. The State of Hawaii (which is Democrat-dominated) won't allow anybody to see records relating to Obama's birth. Once again, what does he have that needs to be hidden?
5. If Obama was proven to be born on foreign territory, his mother would be too young to pass on citizenship.
1. Obama refused many times to show his birth certificate. A candidate with nothing to hide would show their birth certificate and end it.
2. A birth certificate can be acquired with no proof. A record of birth from a hospital has lots of information on it, such as date of birth, the hospital, the doctor, and the location the birth was in.
3. There's rumors that Obama went to college as a foreign exchange student.
4. The State of Hawaii (which is Democrat-dominated) won't allow anybody to see records relating to Obama's birth. Once again, what does he have that needs to be hidden?
5. If Obama was proven to be born on foreign territory, his mother would be too young to pass on citizenship.
DeletedUser
Wrong. He provided it repeatedly. It was examined repeatedly. And yet there are still people claiming it was never provided, never examined.
http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFil...tificate_1.jpg
http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFil...tificate_2.jpg
http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFil...tificate_3.jpg
http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFil...tificate_4.jpg
http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFil...tificate_5.jpg
http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFil...tificate_6.jpg
http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFil...tificate_7.jpg
http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFil...tificate_8.jpg
http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFil...tificate_9.jpg
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES...arBulletin.jpg
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES...rtiser0000.gif
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp
http://www.politifact.com/media/files/obamadriving.jpg
http://www.politifact.com/media/files/obamamarriage.jpg
http://www.kxma.com/News/Politics/291624.asp
And when did "rumors" translate into evidence? That's right, when there's evidence. Information from colleges/universities is public information, especially when it pertains to such things as foreign exchange students, primarily because the U.S. Government subsidizes such. Obama was 'never' a foreign exchange student. Do your homework and stop running on rumors.
Look at the links provided. Your birth certificate info is private, only available to yourself and your immediate relatives. The State of Hawaii is merely abiding by the laws put into effect by voters.
False --- http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp
But irrelevant. He has already been "proven" to be born in the U.S.
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DeletedUser
To start, let me state, I'm not a Birther, and have one belief that says more about the fact there is nothing to this then any thing else, but I will keep that to me self. But for arguement sake. Lets dance.
It isn't a birth certificate, but a "Late" Certificate of Bierth. Big difference. Now why is the Late form unacceptable? Well many reasons. [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]"Late" Certificate of Birth, is not an original Birth Certificate for a birth recorded near the date of actual birth. In Hawaii, anyone can claim they were born there and submit the evidence years after the birth to obtain a late "Certificate of Birth".[/FONT]
This is what a Hawaiian[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica] hospital long form[/FONT] looks like. Note the difference.
Hawaiian Birth Certificate.
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]http://hawaii.gov/...
"Who is Eligible to Apply for Late Registration? As provided by law (HRS §§338-15, 338-29.5), the following persons may apply for late registration: Any person born in Hawaii who is one year old or older and whose birth has not been previously registered in Hawaii, or that person’s parent, guardian, next of kin, or older person acting for that person and having knowledge of the facts of birth may request the registration of a late certificate of birth.
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Amended certifications of birth may be prepared and filed with the Department of Health, as provided by law, for 1) a person born in Hawaii who already has a birth certificate filed with the Department of Health or 2) a person born in a foreign country.
This is straight from the Hawaii Department Of Health Website.
In other words, the "Certification of Live Birth" posted on Obama's website, Factcheck.org and the Daily KOS doesn't prove anything, simply because someone born in a foreign country could file for an amended certification -- click the link, read it for yourself.
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Laws of the Territory of Hawaii ACT 96 To Provide For The Issuance Of Certificates Of Hawaiian Birth was in effect from 1911 until 1972 and allowed someone who was born outside the Hawaiian Islands to be registered as though he were born in Hawaii.
Under that law, someone simply would have presented herself to the Hawaiian authorities and declared that the child was born in Hawaii. The person could have sworn under oath and presented witnesses and other evidence. If the authorities accepted it, that was the end of it.
Also, never forget;
[/FONT]
Explain that?
Look a little closer at the document.Hellstromm Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Franklin
There's a small pile of evidence.
1. Obama refused many times to show his birth certificate. A candidate with nothing to hide would show their birth certificate and end it.
Wrong. He provided it repeatedly. It was examined repeatedly. And yet there are still people claiming it was never provided, never examined.
It isn't a birth certificate, but a "Late" Certificate of Bierth. Big difference. Now why is the Late form unacceptable? Well many reasons. [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]"Late" Certificate of Birth, is not an original Birth Certificate for a birth recorded near the date of actual birth. In Hawaii, anyone can claim they were born there and submit the evidence years after the birth to obtain a late "Certificate of Birth".[/FONT]
This is what a Hawaiian[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica] hospital long form[/FONT] looks like. Note the difference.
Hawaiian Birth Certificate.
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]http://hawaii.gov/...
"Who is Eligible to Apply for Late Registration? As provided by law (HRS §§338-15, 338-29.5), the following persons may apply for late registration: Any person born in Hawaii who is one year old or older and whose birth has not been previously registered in Hawaii, or that person’s parent, guardian, next of kin, or older person acting for that person and having knowledge of the facts of birth may request the registration of a late certificate of birth.
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Amended certifications of birth may be prepared and filed with the Department of Health, as provided by law, for 1) a person born in Hawaii who already has a birth certificate filed with the Department of Health or 2) a person born in a foreign country.
This is straight from the Hawaii Department Of Health Website.
In other words, the "Certification of Live Birth" posted on Obama's website, Factcheck.org and the Daily KOS doesn't prove anything, simply because someone born in a foreign country could file for an amended certification -- click the link, read it for yourself.
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]Laws of the Territory of Hawaii ACT 96 To Provide For The Issuance Of Certificates Of Hawaiian Birth was in effect from 1911 until 1972 and allowed someone who was born outside the Hawaiian Islands to be registered as though he were born in Hawaii.
Under that law, someone simply would have presented herself to the Hawaiian authorities and declared that the child was born in Hawaii. The person could have sworn under oath and presented witnesses and other evidence. If the authorities accepted it, that was the end of it.
Also, never forget;
[/FONT]
Explain that?
DeletedUser
Key word is "evidence".
And so?
Proof, please. You liked to provide a lot of links to back up your story...but this part, you provided nothing.
DeletedUser
Can you help me out here? I've scrutinized that certificate and I can't see anything on there which says that it's a "late" certificate. Oh, sure, the date on it is 2007 - but that's the date of the production of the facsimile, right? That's the date upon which Alvin T .Onaka PhD, State Registrar, certified that the document we're looking at is a true copy of the record on file in the Hawai'i State Department of Health.
Isn't the important date the date of registration? According to the certificate, Obama was registered by the state on August 8, 1961. That's 4 days after his date of birth. If that's "late" then I'd suggest that "late" is the norm because I don't know of anyone who ran straight from the delivery room to the courthouse to register their child. It's certainly "near the birth of the child" - which you were insinuating wasn't the case.
Is there something I'm missing maybe?
That might be what the form looked like in 1978 - but forms change. Besides which, nobody is claiming that the document under scrutiny is a hospital document. It is a certitifed true copy of the file in the Hawai'i State Department of Health. Doesn't "true copy" refer to the details rather than the layout or does it need to be a perfect replication?
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]
Now this seems to me to be mixing "late" registration and "amended" certification. You were suggesting (wrongly, I believe) that Obama's registration was late - but the rules for that state that the late registrant must be born Hawai'i. Check out your own link - it's right there.
An amended certificate is a different matter. That option is available to someone born in a foreign country but you've edited the text on that, which is a bit sneaky. :dry:
The actual text states that you're eligible under [/FONT][/FONT]HRS §§338-17.7, 338-20.5[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica] if you are a "[/FONT][/FONT]...person born in a foreign country who has been legally adopted in the State of Hawaii." 10 words which are really quite important that you cut from the legislation. The words you wrote were from the Hawai'i Department of Health website - but you weren't being entirely honest when you said they were "straight" from there.
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]
Now, obviously, if you've got a document which proves that President Obama was legally adopted in the state then he would be eligible to apply for an amended certificate to register his birth. You can't get that amended certificate without a certificate of adoption, so where is that?
Given that everything I've seen about him being adopted centres around Indonesia, I don't believe there's any such evidence - but obviously, feel free to prove me wrong there. Even if he were adopted, there'd be no need to apply for an amended certificate because his original registration was made 4 days after his birth.
[/FONT][/FONT]
Unfortunately, that link you gave to the defunct law doesn't actually give the text of the law - unless I'm missing something else. However, assuming you're correct, this still doesn't hang together. When was this presentation of the child supposed to have taken place? 4 days after the birth? Do you know how long it takes to get from Kenya to Hawai'i? It's well over 24 hours.
Do you think it's plausible that, having just given birth to her first child, a mother would embark on a multiple leg trip taking more than a day, in the hope that one day her new-born son could become president and defraud a nation? I mean, I know a lot of mothers have high hopes for their babies but that's plain ridiculous.
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DeletedUser
The biggest problem with ignorance is that there's so much of it. The biggest problem with conspiracy theories, is they don't require supporting evidence. The biggest problem with your points of argument, Rebeg, is you don't provide supporting evidence.
A late certificate of Live Birth is a legitimate, legal document, and it has been confirmed as both legal and legitimate by the State of Hawaii. A certificate of Hawaiian Birth is different and must be filed through the legal system, and a hearing takes place. Since hearings and cases, per se, are public information, it is the responsibility of those making such an argument to provide the evidence. They have been unable to do so.
And just to clarify, the process for obtaining a certificate of Hawaiian Birth was instituted in 1911 to provide natives the means to identify themselves as Hawaiian born within the recently acquired U.S. territory of Hawaii. But, and I must emphasize this, it is a blatant lie to claim that Act 96 allowed people of non-Hawaiian birth to claim Hawaiian birth. In fact, the very Act itself, as well as provisions after, indicate clearly that it is perjury to make a false clam. Perjury, if you care to look that word up, in this case means --- to lie about being born in Hawaii when you were born elsewhere, whilst attempting to acquire a certificate of Hawaiian Birth.
And again, a certificate of Live Birth is not a certificate of Hawaiian Birth. Those two documents are intentionally differentiated, as one is a clerical document while the other is a court-ordered document.
Last, Obama's sister was born in Indonesia and she does not possess a birth certificate from Hawaii. Nobody has been able to produce one, Maya Soetoro does not claim to have one, etc. My disclaimer here is that nobody has bothered to research this but, as well as I know, she is a naturalized citizen. Besides of which, any discussion about Obama's half-sister is a red herring, a divergence.
A late certificate of Live Birth is a legitimate, legal document, and it has been confirmed as both legal and legitimate by the State of Hawaii. A certificate of Hawaiian Birth is different and must be filed through the legal system, and a hearing takes place. Since hearings and cases, per se, are public information, it is the responsibility of those making such an argument to provide the evidence. They have been unable to do so.
And just to clarify, the process for obtaining a certificate of Hawaiian Birth was instituted in 1911 to provide natives the means to identify themselves as Hawaiian born within the recently acquired U.S. territory of Hawaii. But, and I must emphasize this, it is a blatant lie to claim that Act 96 allowed people of non-Hawaiian birth to claim Hawaiian birth. In fact, the very Act itself, as well as provisions after, indicate clearly that it is perjury to make a false clam. Perjury, if you care to look that word up, in this case means --- to lie about being born in Hawaii when you were born elsewhere, whilst attempting to acquire a certificate of Hawaiian Birth.
And again, a certificate of Live Birth is not a certificate of Hawaiian Birth. Those two documents are intentionally differentiated, as one is a clerical document while the other is a court-ordered document.
Last, Obama's sister was born in Indonesia and she does not possess a birth certificate from Hawaii. Nobody has been able to produce one, Maya Soetoro does not claim to have one, etc. My disclaimer here is that nobody has bothered to research this but, as well as I know, she is a naturalized citizen. Besides of which, any discussion about Obama's half-sister is a red herring, a divergence.
DeletedUser
Good post that Bevoir, incidently I bet in 1961 it'd take a considerable amount of time to get from Kenya to Hawai, possibly longer then 4 days, and that'd be at great expense.
Couldn't that be said about this whole wider issue?
Its mischief, its got no basis in reality, its designed to discredit an opponent, throw enough mud and some sticks ey?
I read somewhere that Obama's real Kenyan birth certificate showed up... and was being plastered around the web, until someone pointed out the obvious mistakes in the fakery.
A week later a certificate without these obvious mistakes appears and its lauded as a breakthrough by some.
Now forgive my inner cynic, but isn't that amazing?
A fake shows up, obvious, then a few days later a 'real' one shows up without the same mistake... its almost like, someone got it wrong the first time, and read the comments and made a second fake.... a better forgery of course... but of course it has different mistakes....
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/kenyacert.asp
I think its sad that certain people have nothing better to do then make up rubbish personally.
Couldn't that be said about this whole wider issue?
Its mischief, its got no basis in reality, its designed to discredit an opponent, throw enough mud and some sticks ey?
I read somewhere that Obama's real Kenyan birth certificate showed up... and was being plastered around the web, until someone pointed out the obvious mistakes in the fakery.
A week later a certificate without these obvious mistakes appears and its lauded as a breakthrough by some.
Now forgive my inner cynic, but isn't that amazing?
A fake shows up, obvious, then a few days later a 'real' one shows up without the same mistake... its almost like, someone got it wrong the first time, and read the comments and made a second fake.... a better forgery of course... but of course it has different mistakes....
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthers/kenyacert.asp
I think its sad that certain people have nothing better to do then make up rubbish personally.
DeletedUser
The best I found was 34h53 - considerably more than the 24 hours I mentioned. That doesn't take into account the relative scarcity of flights 40-50 years ago which would, obviously, have meant longer waits between connecting flights and, potentially, more connections.
More than 4 days, just for travel, might be a little excessive but when you consider travel from hospital to airport and the arrangement of an appointment to register - not to mention arranging two "witnesses" to the birth who were happy to perjure themselves...
As for the expense - you also have to bear in mind that the flights could not have been booked in advance.
Yeah, sad on one level.
On another level, it's hilarious that there are people out there who think that kind of thing will bring down a president.
DeletedUser
I make 5 standing points, and provide links to 4 sites 3 of which are Hawaiian Government web sites and your point is I provide no evidence to back up my points? Now that is entertaining if not misleading.
DeletedUser
Yeah, but Gib, the link to the Hawaiian Government site you gave showed that you'd expurgated the law you quoted to remove the requirement that someone be adopted in order to gain an amended certificate. Now that is misleading.
The link to the old law was a mere table of contents without any legislative text.
The link to the birth certificate showed what a certificate looked like in 1975 - which really has no bearing on anything.
The link to the old law was a mere table of contents without any legislative text.
The link to the birth certificate showed what a certificate looked like in 1975 - which really has no bearing on anything.
DeletedUser
Gib, links, in and of themselves, are not evidence. In your post you failed to provide any documentation on:
1. Your claim that Obama's half-sister has a Hawaiian certificate of Live Birth.
2. Court papers demonstrating Obama's parent(s) underwent a hearing to obtain a certificate of Hawaiian Birth.
These are the least bits of evidence required as substantiation.
1. Your claim that Obama's half-sister has a Hawaiian certificate of Live Birth.
2. Court papers demonstrating Obama's parent(s) underwent a hearing to obtain a certificate of Hawaiian Birth.
These are the least bits of evidence required as substantiation.
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