DeletedUser
You're right. It's Genesis 3:22, sorry about that.
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DeletedUser
OK. So where did I get that the serpent is Satan ... Well, first I believe it is made reference to later in the Bible (I don't have the reference but will get it tomorrow if necessary). Second, it is also implied that he was the serpent because there was no evil in this world at that time even though Satan and his angels had already left heaven. He is practically the guy blamed for the serpent incident. I will get the info tomorrow. Good night for now.
DeletedUser
Lol, okay so if I blow someone's head off, they're not dead, they're just "separated from God."
*Sigh*
There are three types of death, Hellstromm.
Physical Death: Separation of the spirit and soul from body
Spiritual Death: Separation from God because of sin
Eternal Death: Separation from God in the eternal state
Perhaps I should have explained that before, but I figured you knew what I was talking about.
I'd like to know where in the Bible it says that a 'sinner' will be tortured for eternity.
The Bible says that the sinner deserves Eternal death (separation from God in Hell). God's desire is that none perish in Hell. His desire is that we turn to Him for grace and mercy. He desires this so much that His body became a man so that He could die in our place.
Since this place [hell] is fiery, people believe that the fire is probably going to torture you.
All the fire I've ever touched has been hot and it burned.
Although there is a lot of debate whether the fire is a literal element or a figurative thing.
Read Luke 16. I quoted it in my previous post. That is not figurative. It is a true story that actually happened (notice the fact that the proper names Abraham and Lazarus are used) by Jesus.
If you actually read the Bible you can see that what it really says is that Satan to the shape and form of a snake and lied to Eve by promising her that if she ate of the forbidden fruit that she would be like God.
Satan indwelt a serpent. Slight difference.
Perhaps you should reread your Bible; I've read many versions many times over the years. Nowhere does it say that Satan took the form of the serpent.
It is understood that Satan deceived Eve, especially when we see that Satan is called "that ancient serpent" in two scriptures in Revelation:
New American Standard Bible said:Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.
Revelation 20:2
And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years,
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DeletedUser
You got me on that one. I obviously spent more time on the old testament than the new.
DeletedUser1121
Read Luke 16. I quoted it in my previous post. That is not figurative. It is a true story that actually happened (notice the fact that the proper names Abraham and Lazarus are used) by Jesus.
Sure it really happened. That is the whole bottomline of this discussion.
You believe everything that is in the bible and i don't. I think it is just another book written by men to control, scare and actually abuse other people.
There is no proof at all that these things happened. Call me an agnost, but until is see proof, i just can't get it in my mind that it is true.
DeletedUser
Sure it really happened. That is the whole bottomline of this discussion.
You believe everything that is in the bible and i don't. I think it is just another book written by men to control, scare and actually abuse other people.
There is no proof at all that these things happened. Call me an agnost, but until is see proof, i just can't get it in my mind that it is true.
First, the odds of writing a book like this and getting all the pieces to fit. There hasn't been one historical or geographical error in the Bible. As a matter of fact people have been able to match the Bible with history. Archeological finds are coherent with the bible. They match it.You can easily Google some Bible facts and see the accuracy of the Bible. What kind of proof do you need? Ill look it up for you.
DeletedUser
First, the odds of writing a book like this and getting all the pieces to fit. There hasn't been one historical or geographical error in the Bible. As a matter of fact people have been able to match the Bible with history. Archeological finds are coherent with the bible. They match it.You can easily Google some Bible facts and see the accuracy of the Bible. What kind of proof do you need? Ill look it up for you.
Let's start with:
- Exodus; you'd think the Egyptians would have had at least a small notice when such a large part of their work force (wasn't it even 2/3 of the entire Egyptian population?) just left, no?
- global flood; you'd think you'd find evidence all over the world for a global flood, no?
DeletedUser
- global flood; you'd think you'd find evidence all over the world for a global flood, no?
There's been fossils of creatures that live in the sea found on the top of mountains how did they get there no one knows ...
DeletedUser
- Exodus; you'd think the Egyptians would have had at least a small notice when such a large part of their work force (wasn't it even 2/3 of the entire Egyptian population?) just left, no?
Of course they noticed; why would you think they didn't? What is so unbelievable about self-emancipation? Especially if it was such a large majority as you said, the desire of the masses for freedom from their oppressors would naturally be great.
- global flood; you'd think you'd find evidence all over the world for a global flood, no?
You said it yourself, Jack; the evidence should be all over the world. And so it is. Unlike in the past, large-scale fossilization does not occur in our modern world. Where mass death has occured, such as the millions of buffaloes that were killed on the Great Plains, fossils are not found. For a fossil to form, a specimen must be rapidly buried with large layers of sediments. This only happens when catastrophic events occur such as mudslides, volcanic eruptions, floods, and so forth, because, obviously, large amounts of sediments are not ordinarily (or “uniformly”) deposited. However, the occasional local catastrophe does not trap enough animals to account for the immense fossil record that we have. In a local catastrophe, animals flee the destruction; but there are many places in the world where mass graveyards have been found where hundreds of animals have been fossilized by some disaster. These animals could not escape and were rapidly buried by layers of sediments. Often in these burials, the fossils represent animals from completely different and widely separated climate zones. Uniformitarianism (e.g. the evolutionary doctrine that natural processes on earth have always progressed at the same slow rate) has no explanation for these mass graveyards; however, creation scientists explain this phenomenon by the worldwide flood. There was no place for any animal to escape to; the entire world was destroyed. Only a worldwide flood can satisfactorily explain the cause and reason for the millions of fossils that have been discovered.
DeletedUser1121
First, the odds of writing a book like this and getting all the pieces to fit. There hasn't been one historical or geographical error in the Bible. As a matter of fact people have been able to match the Bible with history. Archeological finds are coherent with the bible. They match it.You can easily Google some Bible facts and see the accuracy of the Bible. What kind of proof do you need? Ill look it up for you.
LOL it shouldn't be so hard to write a book that fits into history and geographicly after things have happened. It is still fiction imho. Show me how a man can turn water into wine or show me how he can walk over water. If you can look that up for me it would be great. Even better, show me how a man can return from the dead.
Only a worldwide flood can satisfactorily explain the cause and reason for the millions of fossils that have been discovered.
Just one question: Where did all the water come to flood the entire world? And where did it go?
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DeletedUser
Hehe, there goes your ignorance again. Read up on cool flame --- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cool_flameAll the fire I've ever touched has been hot and it burned.
Actually, yes they do know. Problem is, "you" don't know, which is a continued demonstration of ignorance, a prevalent characteristic of those who claim the historical validity of the Bible, despite contrary evidence, whilst denying anything else. It gets old, but let's put you on the spot. You claim validity, so it's on your head to provide the evidence in support of your claims, not ours for disputing your general claims.There's been fossils of creatures that live in the sea found on the top of mountains how did they get there no one knows ...
(( btw, Desi is correct. A book written in 100 A.D. can easily present instances/events that happened 2000 years prior, pose a spin, and claim it's all relevant. Just because I say all cats are fat doesn't mean it's true simply because cats exist. ))
Hehe, you do realize that's just plain silly. There's only one type of death, and it's known as, "dead."There are three types of death, Hellstromm.
Physical Death: Separation of the spirit and soul from body
Spiritual Death: Separation from God because of sin
Eternal Death: Separation from God in the eternal state
Anything else is just wishful thinking, creative writing, Hobbits, Dwarves and Elves.
Hmm, so was that a Physical, Spiritual, or Eternal death? *smirk*His desire is that we turn to Him for grace and mercy. He desires this so much that His body became a man so that He could die in our place.
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DeletedUser
Of course they noticed; why would you think they didn't? What is so unbelievable about self-emancipation? Especially if it was such a large majority as you said, the desire of the masses for freedom from their oppressors would naturally be great.
Well, if they noticed, why didn't they noted? There's no contemporary source confirming the decrease of the population to one third.
"Desire of freedom from their oppressors"? Last time I checked with historians, the Jews were considered free commoners in Egypt at that time.
You said it yourself, Jack; the evidence should be all over the world. And so it is. [...]
It is? If all creatures would have fossilized at the very same time due to a global flood, you'd find the fossils in the very same layer, no?
And then there's already the point of the masses of water, that are nowhere to be found on this planet.
And there are further problems with that story.
The inability of creatures to survive salt or fresh water respectively.
The inability of creatures to survive with high or low water pressure respectively.
How did plants survive a global flood?
How about parasites and symbiotic organisms.
DeletedUser
"And Lo" said the angel, "behold, in 2000 years hence, man shall walketh upon the moon"
And so it was
Lastagain, Chapter 6 Verse 12, taken from his message to the Darwinians
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Walls of cities being knocked down by blowing horns?
People being turned into pillars of salt?
A super hero who gets his strength from his hair?
Divine pregnancy? im sure a lot have tried that one before!!!!
Two of each animal into a P&O ferry and thats what gave us the multitude of creatures we have today?
The list goes on.
The Bible is a book created by the few who could read at the time, to appease their masters and gain even more power for the church.
And its all bowlocks.
And so it was
Lastagain, Chapter 6 Verse 12, taken from his message to the Darwinians
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Walls of cities being knocked down by blowing horns?
People being turned into pillars of salt?
A super hero who gets his strength from his hair?
Divine pregnancy? im sure a lot have tried that one before!!!!
Two of each animal into a P&O ferry and thats what gave us the multitude of creatures we have today?
The list goes on.
The Bible is a book created by the few who could read at the time, to appease their masters and gain even more power for the church.
And its all bowlocks.
DeletedUser
LOL it shouldn't be so hard to write a book that fits into history and geographicly after things have happened. It is still fiction imho. Show me how a man can turn water into wine or show me how he can walk over water. If you can look that up for me it would be great. Even better, show me how a man can return from the dead.
Yeah but the Bible isn't one book. Its many books written over time... It isn't written after the stuff actually happened.
DeletedUser
Provide evidence of this claim, good luck on that.Yeah but the Bible isn't one book. Its many books written over time... It isn't written after the stuff actually happened.
DeletedUser
Just one question: Where did all the water come to flood the entire world? And where did it go?
The water came from a vapor canopy. Because of the great amount of water still in the atmosphere, earth previously had a sub-tropical climate. Hence, dinosaurs and other now-extinct animals thrived and the life exspectancy of man was longer. The oceans were at a much lower level before the flood. After the deludge, the planet took on a much more diverse and harsh climate. The poles froze over and the ice age started.
Hehe, there goes your ignorance again. Read up on cool flame --- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cool_flame
I said that I had never seen fire that did not burn. That is true. I've never seen cool flame; and according to your link, it is very rare.
Actually, yes they do know.
O.K. then explain it to us Hellstromm. I told you why there are sea shell fosils in the Rocky Mountains. Now you explain it.
A book written in 100 A.D. can easily present instances/events that happened 2000 years prior, pose a spin, and claim it's all relevant.
The LAST book of the Bible was written in 90 A.D. The Old Testament, the part of Scriputres containing the most prophesies, was written well before that. Furthermore, one of the greatest prophesies in the Bible, that Israel would once again become a nation, was not fullfilled until 1948. Israel had not been a nation for almost 2,000 years. They had been scattered from their land by the Romans in 70 A.D.
Hehe, you do realize that's just plain silly. There's only one type of death, and it's known as, "dead."
Well, Webster, whom I have a feeling was smarter and wiser than you, did not think so. The only reason you find it "silly" is because you do not belive in a spiritual realm.
Hmm, so was that a Physical, Spiritual, or Eternal death? *smirk*
That was phisical death. *smile*
It is? If all creatures would have fossilized at the very same time due to a global flood, you'd find the fossils in the very same layer, no?
That is exactly what you do find. A damning peice of evidence for the theory of evolution. In New Mexico, Arizona, Missouri, Kentucky, Illinois, other U.S. states, and also in Mexico there have been found many contemporaneous human and dinosaur footprints. Many trilobite fossils have been found in the fossilized footprints of men. In Utah, several fossilized trilobites were found in the fossilized footprint of a sandaled man. The fossil of a squished trilobite has been found in the fossilized footprint of a barefoot young child.
Furthermore, evolutionists believe that land plants did not appear until over 100 million years after the Cambrian trilobites died out. Yet, over sixty genera of woody-plant spores, pollen, and wood itself have been recovered from lowest “trilobite rock” (Cambrian) throughout the world. The evidence is so well known that it’s even in standard college biology textbooks. The secular botany textbook by Weier, Stocking, and Barbour puts it this way: “Despite tempting fragments of evidence, such as cutinized [waxy] spores and bits of xylem [wood] dating back to the Cambrian period . . .” most evolutionists still believe that land plants did not evolve until much later. But notice, the evolutionist argues in spite of the evidence.
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DeletedUser
I have a question, about the Noah's Ark idea. Could it just be an overexadurated and overly recent tale? Could it actually be a thing that took place around 65 million years ago, or even before then? As we know, there have been multiple mass extinctions, and thus only a few species survived each one, but could The Bible chapters on Noah and his Ark be just a metaphor, and the two of each animal, be an underestimate? Obviously, it would be physically, genetically, and humanly impossible for someone to save the world with just one boat and two of each animal, but what if it's more than that? What if the story of Noah's Ark is about the continents, and 2e to the xth amount of animals surviving? Could that be the case?
If it isn't the case, then is there anything at all going for Noahs little boat trip, or what?
If it isn't the case, then is there anything at all going for Noahs little boat trip, or what?
DeletedUser
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZiusudraIf it isn't the case, then is there anything at all going for Noahs little boat trip, or what?
DeletedUser
Justin - I respect your faith, but your grasp of science is poor.
Your accounts of fossilisation, flood creation etc. are not even faintly plausible to anyone with a basic knowledge of the physical processes involved. Please stick to what you are good at - interpret the bible as allegorical or moral or whatever, but do not try to interpret is as a book of literal scientific facts. There may be gullible types who will swallow that, but to the scientifically educated it just looks like you are talking through your hat.
Your accounts of fossilisation, flood creation etc. are not even faintly plausible to anyone with a basic knowledge of the physical processes involved. Please stick to what you are good at - interpret the bible as allegorical or moral or whatever, but do not try to interpret is as a book of literal scientific facts. There may be gullible types who will swallow that, but to the scientifically educated it just looks like you are talking through your hat.
DeletedUser
Your accounts of fossilisation, flood creation etc. are not even faintly plausible to anyone with a basic knowledge of the physical processes involved.
Fossilisation: What I said is undisputed; fossils form when organic material is quickly burried without decay. Explain how I am wrong. Don't just say, "You're wrong."
Tell me what evidence argues against a flood.
You're trying to tell me I don't know how CREATION happened? No kidding. God did it; not me.
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