Best clothes for FORT battles?

[DeletedUser544]

Really?
Perhaps you should read the help again.
Stamina is for both shooting and dodging when attacking a fort.
Hiding is for both shooting and dodging when defending a fort.

I'm sorry but just because the help says something doesn't mean thats what is actually going on in the formulas. Reflex and Toughness supposedly only affect Shooting and Vigor damage reduction, respectively (according to the help). but its came out recently that they in fact work together against all forms of damage reduction.

the forts haven't been out long enough for the language translation issues to be worked out (in my opinion). and I don't believe just because it says 'hiding helps shooting' that it in fact does. it makes NO SENSE for hiding to aid in shooting (just like it makes no sense that the shooting skill is no longer used, thereby not penalizing all the melee duelers who don't have any gun skills). it may in the end actually do what the help says. but until I see more proof, I am operating under the assumption that stamina aids shooting, and hiding aids dodging... and nothing else

And yes I did read what your ranking was based on, I was just pointing out the error in basing it on those parameters. I am not the one here that lacks comprehension. Sorry if I upset you by pointing out your errors, but I was trying to be helpful.

its not an error. in your opinion its an error. this is a discussion where ideas are presented forth. you weren't trying to be helpful, you were trying to shoot down my idea. don't misrepresent what actually happened there please. I was more then polite in my post and am not trying to argue with anyone. I published the results of a bit of work my friend and I did to come up with those numbers, and you essentially told me I was wrong on all counts; thats not being helpful. thats being preachy and a know-it-all. all too often I find some of these more knowledgeable players aren't helpful at all; instead you try to ridicule and minimize what other people post if you don't agree with it. get over yourself just because you played a bit longer, or know an admin, or know someone beta-testing and have some insights into the game doesn't make you god.

 

[DeletedUser14006]

I'm sorry but just because the help says something doesn't mean thats what is actually going on in the formulas. Reflex and Toughness supposedly only affect Shooting and Vigor damage reduction, respectively (according to the help). but its came out recently that they in fact work together against all forms of damage reduction.

the forts haven't been out long enough for the language translation issues to be worked out (in my opinion). and I don't believe just because it says 'hiding helps shooting' that it in fact does. it makes NO SENSE for hiding to aid in shooting (just like it makes no sense that the shooting skill is no longer used, thereby not penalizing all the melee duelers who don't have any gun skills). it may in the end actually do what the help says. but until I see more proof, I am operating under the assumption that stamina aids shooting, and hiding aids dodging... and nothing else

Oddly enough, I find myself agreeing with Roland here

 

[DeletedUser]

• Hiding is used when a defender tries to shoot or dodge a shot.
• Stamina is used when an attacker tries to shoot or dodge a shot.

It seems really clear in the help, so I'm not going to doubt it

 

[DeletedUser]

It would make sense that as in correlation to dueling Hiding is to "Tactics", and "Stamina" is to Appearance. How true this is we'll learn as time goes on.

 

[DeletedUser]

you weren't trying to be helpful, you were trying to shoot down my idea. don't misrepresent what actually happened there please.

Because you know my motives far better than I would, who is misrepresenting things here? Forgive me for trying to help.

I was more then polite in my post and am not trying to argue with anyone. I published the results of a bit of work my friend and I did to come up with those numbers, and you essentially told me I was wrong on all counts; thats not being helpful. thats being preachy and a know-it-all. all too often I find some of these more knowledgeable players aren't helpful at all; instead you try to ridicule and minimize what other people post if you don't agree with it. get over yourself just because you played a bit longer, or know an admin, or know someone beta-testing and have some insights into the game doesn't make you god.

I assure you I had no intention of trying to ridicule you, but you seem to be doing a good job of that with your insane overreaction to my post. As you said, this is a place for discussion, I am shocked that it offends you so much for someone to disagree with your ideas.

 

[DeletedUser10523]

I'm sorry but just because the help says something doesn't mean thats what is actually going on in the formulas. Reflex and Toughness supposedly only affect Shooting and Vigor damage reduction, respectively (according to the help). but its came out recently that they in fact work together against all forms of damage reduction.

the forts haven't been out long enough for the language translation issues to be worked out (in my opinion). and I don't believe just because it says 'hiding helps shooting' that it in fact does. it makes NO SENSE for hiding to aid in shooting (just like it makes no sense that the shooting skill is no longer used, thereby not penalizing all the melee duelers who don't have any gun skills). it may in the end actually do what the help says. but until I see more proof, I am operating under the assumption that stamina aids shooting, and hiding aids dodging... and nothing else



its not an error. in your opinion its an error. this is a discussion where ideas are presented forth. you weren't trying to be helpful, you were trying to shoot down my idea. don't misrepresent what actually happened there please. I was more then polite in my post and am not trying to argue with anyone. I published the results of a bit of work my friend and I did to come up with those numbers, and you essentially told me I was wrong on all counts; thats not being helpful. thats being preachy and a know-it-all. all too often I find some of these more knowledgeable players aren't helpful at all; instead you try to ridicule and minimize what other people post if you don't agree with it. get over yourself just because you played a bit longer, or know an admin, or know someone beta-testing and have some insights into the game doesn't make you god.

Great discussion so far guys.

I agree that it's nice to know which items give the max in each fort battle stat but it's not too helpful. You pretty much have to get that list of bonuses and try different combinations of clothing that you own until you find the one that works best for you. I've also found that shifting a point or two helps (I shifted one point to stamina in one instance which moved me up one bonus point).

You are correct that the documentation isnt't always correct, but you are setting yourself up for failure if you think it's usually wrong because it's actually usually right. As far as hiding being used for shooting - think of a sniper - if the person you are attacking is just walking / standing out in the open, they are much easier to hit than if they know you are there and hit thus hit the ground or stand behind an object.

 

[DeletedUser544]

no I'm not saying its usually wrong
it very well could be how George claims
but it has been wrong in the past; and people who made assumptions based on that wrong material found themselves, for instance, swamped w/ all of these damage reducer duelers and unable to beat them...

the thing is, if hiding really only works when you are defending and stamina really only works when you are attacking... then aim/dodge and leadership become the most important skills. which makes sense; aim/dodge are the only skills in dueling that work both on attack and defense.

@Roland: Aim and dodge should only count half compared to the other skills, as the other skills are used both to shoot and dodge.

see that makes no sense if you are right and hiding is only for defense, stamina only for attack... then aim/dodge and leadership should be valued at double what hiding/stamina are valued at.

but as Jamrocker (and George) have said, it also relies on one's skills so different people are going to want to pump up different skills, based on how close they are to a certain threshhold.

Because you know my motives far better than I would, who is misrepresenting things here? Forgive me for trying to help.I assure you I had no intention of trying to ridicule you, but you seem to be doing a good job of that with your insane overreaction to my post. As you said, this is a place for discussion, I am shocked that it offends you so much for someone to disagree with your ideas.

insane overreaction? because I called you on it and put you in your place? this is what I'm talking about. whats so special about you and your opinion that you can talk down to anyone who posts, and then try to ridicule me because I responded to your claims and tried to have a discussion about it? if you were right about the help being correct, and hiding is used for shooting/dodging on defense... and stamina shooting/dodging on attack (and this makes no sense to me; why would hiding help you shoot better?), then it makes you WRONG in your statement above that aim/dodge should only be valued at 1/2 of the others. so you aren't perfect either. this game has many hidden elements to it, and many different theories on how to unlock those, and get the best results. but the formulas aren't public. so citinig the help as the end all to any disagreements on interpretation is not valid; and discrediting anyone who puts an idea forth that isn't the accepted 'standard' is something I am getting really tired of seeing on these forums. you guys know who you are. if you don't agree w/ what someone posted, have a discussion or even a light argument. don't just try to ridicule them and tell them they are straight up 'wrong'. how can anyone be wrong on putting forth an idea? all ideas are valid, until you show me the formulas for every aspect of this game (which you will never be able to do)

 

[DeletedUser]

... all ideas are valid, until you show me the formulas for every aspect of this game (which you will never be able to do)

And that pretty much sums up the entire discussion. Until a source in the 'know' (Dev) tells us how the skills interact or give us better examples (like the help files on Dueling) anything else is just speculation.

Just put it into comparison with dueling. When they write that Aim, Leadership, and Hiding are used when shooting on the defense it leaves a LOT of room to judge how they actually work. It'd be the same as saying your duelings skills are Aim, Shooting/Vigor, Toughness/Reflexes, and Tactics when shooting on the defense in a duel and give no additional info.

Without the added knowledge on how your aim goes against your opponents dodge, or your tactics vs. their appearance (modifying aim), and your shooting/vigor vs. their toughness/reflexes (modifying damage) we wouldn't know how to best gear or skill for dueling. But since this information is given, we can increase our toughness/reflexes to reduce damage or increase our aim to further our chances for a successful hit. But as of now, we don't know this additional information so we don't know for sure which skills to balance or improve upon. Is having 100 points just in leadership good or is it better to have 30 in aim, 30 in hiding, and 40 in leadership???

It's all trial and error and speculation at this point until additional information is given out or somehow discovered by tons of testing where the skills on BOTH sides of the fight are known and disseminated.

~Z~

 

[DeletedUser544]

exactly given some time trends will form
but this early, I'd say its open to any interpretation

 

[DeletedUser]

One interpretation I have of the fort battle is everyone starts off with a base AV and a DV (defense value & attack value) of say 10.

You are the attacker and you have Stamina 26 Aim 60 & Leadership 79 this gives you a bonus of +15 so your AV = 25, nearest defender is standing 10 squares away so your AV = 8 (-16 distance penalty) against them. Defender has Dodge 60 Hiding 60 and leadership 35 so his DV = 24.

You must roll between 1-8 they roll between 1-24 if you score higher you land a hit. Then the barriers & towers will obviously add a bit more to this when they are working.

 

[DeletedUser]

the thing is, if hiding really only works when you are defending and stamina really only works when you are attacking... then aim/dodge and leadership become the most important skills. which makes sense; aim/dodge are the only skills in dueling that work both on attack and defense.



see that makes no sense if you are right and hiding is only for defense, stamina only for attack... then aim/dodge and leadership should be valued at double what hiding/stamina are valued at.

I think you are misunderstanding the difference between attacking/defending and Shooting/dodging

If you are on the attacking side of the fight skills needed:
When shooting: Leadership, Aim, and Stamina
When dodging shots: Leadership, Dodging, and Stamina

If you are on the defending side of the fight skills needed:
When shooting: Leadership, Aim, and Hiding
When dodging shots: Leadership, Dodging, and Hiding

You are only ever going to be either attacking or defending during each battle but you are going to be both shooting and dodging

Therefore if you are on the attacking side of the fort Leadership and stamina are needed for both shooting at the defenders and dodging the defenders shots.
Aim only helps out when you shoot at them and dodge only helps when they are shooting at you, that is where the claim that leadership and Stamina would be twice as valuable when attacking and leadership and Hiding more valuable when defending.

 

[DeletedUser]

Good discussion.

In my opinion Roland has it right with the clothing he listed if we are talking about which clothes would maximise your fort fighting potential - in theory a pure fort fighter.

But I have to agree with George that that was an overreaction (sorry to deviate from the main topic) - I thought his language was passive enough to leave room for further discussion and that he wasn't trying to talk down to anyone. Calling someone's views preachy and know-it-all I feel will only stifle good debate and lead to pointless arguments.

And like it's been said we won't ever know for certain unless the devs reveal the formulas they use for working this stuff out.

 

[DeletedUser]

I am romanian so I don't know if I am putting this right. Here are some items to choose from:
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/4870/ypfgfjkdfdaaaajkjhkmbnb.jpg
Atac=Atack
Aparare=Defending

It's a sugestion, if u have another method please anounce it so I can modify it.
I haven't included animals and products

 

[DeletedUser]

Thanks for gathering the information... I just don't want to bother translating from whatever language that is to English.


EDIT:

@ Anonymous RED REP:

I'm not whining... I just find it useless to have a huge chart in a language I can't read. Yeah, I could decrypt the language and figure out what some of it means... but who knows how long it would take me. Plus I'm not one of those people who knows what every item in the game is just by looking at it.

 

[DeletedUser20647]

I am romanian so I don't know if I am putting this right. Here are some items to choose from:
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/4870/ypfgfjkdfdaaaajkjhkmbnb.jpg
Atac=Atack
Aparare=Defending

It's a sugestion, if u have another method please anounce it so I can modify it.
I haven't included animals and products

Okay, so I took some time to look at this and I noticed a few things...

Firstly, your tables are a bit off, because you are assuming that all the fort battle skills are of the same importance to every player regardless of their natural skills, which they are not. But if you ignore that fact and go for the highest bonus, you've missed an item: Clothing (attack): Sunday clothing, +13 bonus, going by that point-system you used.

Secondly, you made some minor mistakes:
The bonus for the fancy felt hat (defending) is +18, not +19
The bonus for the fancy leather jacket (defending) is +17, not +16 and you forgot the +1 hp (PV is your table).
The bonus for the fancy coat (attacking) is +11, not +10.
You forgot the +2 health points from fancy riding boots (attacking).
The bonus for the fancy boots (attacking) is +12, not +10.
The bonus for the fancy coat (attacking) is +11, not +10.
At the neckbands part (attacking), you left out leadership completely...

I know you haven't added animals and product, but adding those makes such a big difference... some of items you listed are inferior to partial set bonuses. Besides these, I suggest you add Belle Starr's Deringer and the Holy Talisman.

This should improve it a bit

 

[DeletedUser]

I'm wondering what the best weapon for attacks and defending Forts is at level 54,
what is the price of it and where I might get it and the bonus it may give me?

 

[DeletedUser]

For soldier class: fort attacks and defenses - trumpet
For other classes:
fort attack: any weapon with aim: precise muzzle-loader, figaro's razor blade, drake's muzzle loader. Best at your level would be drake's muzzle loader giving you 4 aim.
fort defense: any weapon with aim as above and belle star's deringer. Best for your level would be belle star's deringer, giving you 4 hiding. At level 63 you could wear the sharp tomahawk, giving you 3 dodge, 3 hiding.

 

[DeletedUser17612]

Nat's machete ($6750) or Allen's pepperbox revolver ($6850)
but you won't get them at these prices. they will cost you 50k-70k.

you should look at the market.

and then, if you ask about fort battle gun, then it's totally different answer.
Precise coach gun ($6300) in the Gunsmith (if you are a member of the town).

 

[DeletedUser]

This topic might help.
http://forum.the-west.net/showthread.php?t=44187

 

[DeletedUser11773]

Very easy, clothes with high leadership--hide--aim--dodge, for defense.
XXXXXXX, clothes with high leadership--stamina--aim--dodge, for attack.
And your all set to fight.