Passed Bartbot: Hideouts [updated]

Would you like to see this in game?

  • Yes

    Votes: 81 55.9%
  • No

    Votes: 64 44.1%

  • Total voters
    145
  • Poll closed .
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Gem

Discussion for one week: end 1st March.

The proposal:
A network of hidden areas to be discovered by multiple players as oases used throughout the game as a haven/protection system.

The Details:

There are three types of hideouts: Burrows, Sheds and Log Cabin. At a job with 0-100 difficulty there is a Burrow, 101-250 has a Shed and 251+ has a Log Cabin. They provide the following bonuses:

Dugout: 50% energy required for job and the motivation only decreases by 50% of the regular amount.
Shed: 0% energy required for job and the motivation doesn't decrease.
Log Cabin: -50% energy required for job and the motivation increases by 50% of normal rate.

If you want to enhance this idea further you could ADD (not OR):

Dug-out: Gives duel protection for first 1/2 hour
Shed: Gives duel protection for first hour
Log Cabin: Gives duel protection for all 2 hours

Hideouts are randomly discovered during one job and are not saved to memory. The default chance of discovering a hideout is 10%.

Addition
As an addition you may want to add a "King of the Hill" aspect to this. So to create this the "One Player Limit" could be introduced.

If two players happen to discover a hideout at overlapping time periods an "effectless" duel is instigated. This would be like duelling a NPC and would require no energy, would not decrease duelling motivation and no money would be taken by the winning player, although health would still be lost. The winner of the duel would receive the bonus of the hideout and the loser would not.

Once the duel ends the remainder of the job continues as normal, and you immediately receive a report showing the duel. If you are KOed during the duel the standard procedure occurs and you automatically lose the duel. For example: "Diggo11 wins the duel and gains X experience. He keep the temporary rights to the hideout." If a KO occurs: "Gem was knocked out, losing the duel. Diggo11 gains X experience and keeps the temporary rights to the hideout."

If one players duelling level is to high for the other the weaker player automatically loses the duel. If it happens to be a townless player they automatically lose too, but none of the changes mentioned below are enforced.

What could be saved into players memory could be a variable rate of finding a hideout. If you win a duel for a hideout the chance of discovering another is increased by 1%, losing would decrease the chance by 1%. Rates could only fluctuate between 5%-15%.
 
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Jesse James

Great idea.If the devs are patient enough to read the whole thing they'll surely like it.;)
 

BartBot

Seems overly complicated to me.
Won't be in-game.

Just you need alot of info for the devs to consider it well-thought out i tink.

Edit: And I forgot to mention that you will get a normal duel report for when two people duel for the hideout.

and maybe dueling for the hideout could be not necessarily forced, but optional, kinda like a saloon.
 
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Diggo11

InnoGames
I couldn't get the thumbnails on-screen... sorry Diggo.
Meh links are good.

There were two options but Gem obviously made up her mind ;)
There were? I was following the thread and saw that had already been decided :bandit:
Yeah most people preferred the detailed option, but thought that the developers would only allow the simple option. But since you thought the detailed one was appropriate then I'm sure the developers will too. Besides if we just make short mention of it in the submission notes they can think for themselves :p

Gem said:
Think they're a bit big to put in the thread at the moment or I would have :p
Lol sorry I don't know why I used to make them entire page screenshots, rather pointless. I'll crop them down to the window if you wish.

Won't be in-game.
Exactly, it only has to be coded once and then it won't provide any complex issues.
 

Violette LeDrunc

I'm kind of with Luap on the complicated, but if the system is implemented it won't be complicated to use.

I don't think there are any changes that need to be made.
 

Grumbold

I think its complicated and I'm also confused about the duelling aspect.
- If two playerss are intent on doing a job, why would either of them be interested in precipitating a duel? Particularly while dressed to work?
- If the site gives duel protection, how can using it precipitate a duel with someone who has duel protection for being inside?
- What happens to the player who 'bounces' - do they lose their work instruction, reset to doing the job without bonuses, walk back to town?

This has the potential to mess up people who don't have the time to monitor their activity.

I'd rather separate out the aspects. You could find sites that give working bonuses as described, or you could find sites that give defensive advantages if ambushed but a small work disadvantage for the inconvenience. e.g. a rocky outcropping could add 5 to the job difficulty (lowering job gains) and provide +10 tactics, +10 dodge if dueled.

Any number of workers could be using that outcropping if they've found it (no need for additional proximity/duel checks at a work site or unsolicited duels) but if they are successfully duelled by someone at their town and lose, they have to rediscover the location as suggested.
 

John Rose

I don't really see the point in this feature at all.

If it gets approved though, I can see loads and loads of changes I'd prefer to see prior to this one.
 

BigDawg

I kind of like the idea that you can find random advantages at job sites, but have to agree with Grumlord with the dueling aspects being very confusing.
 

BartBot

I think its complicated and I'm also confused about the duelling aspect.
- If two playerss are intent on doing a job, why would either of them be interested in precipitating a duel? Particularly while dressed to work?
- If the site gives duel protection, how can using it precipitate a duel with someone who has duel protection for being inside?
- What happens to the player who 'bounces' - do they lose their work instruction, reset to doing the job without bonuses, walk back to town?

This has the potential to mess up people who don't have the time to monitor their activity.

I'd rather separate out the aspects. You could find sites that give working bonuses as described, or you could find sites that give defensive advantages if ambushed but a small work disadvantage for the inconvenience. e.g. a rocky outcropping could add 5 to the job difficulty (lowering job gains) and provide +10 tactics, +10 dodge if dueled.

Any number of workers could be using that outcropping if they've found it (no need for additional proximity/duel checks at a work site or unsolicited duels) but if they are successfully duelled by someone at their town and lose, they have to rediscover the location as suggested.
Gem didn't get the revised summary. Let me clear this up.

Revised: You will have the option to duel at these hideouts with the other players within the hideout(similar to a town saloon), but have complete outside protection.

Now let's say you are a dueler, who wants to target a worker at a hideout for his job. Let's use constructing a bridge. Firstly, the dueler who wants to attack the worker has to be able to do the job (unlikely because of labour points), and find the hideout (unlikely, because of the base requirements), and then, be in the same dueling level range. Also if the dueler requires work clothes to build a bridge, then he probably won't have the full dueling bonuses to an advantage.

Now if you add a +5 dodging and +5 tactics bonus to the defender in the hideout (versus the attacker in the hideout), then 9 out of 10, it will be even.

That answer it?
 

VinWij

I also think this is overly complicated, and requires a serious amount of programming for rather small advantages. Why would you only be able to use it once in 24 hours? I respect the abuse-protection, but this gets too rediculous. If you know about a cabin, why not use it every time? I mean, it IS there, right?

Also, linking them to towns and players, unlinking them, the whole time based aspects... Too tedious, even if it is simple to use it.
 

Grumbold

Gem didn't get the revised summary. Let me clear this up.

Revised: You will have the option to duel at these hideouts with the other players within the hideout(similar to a town saloon), but have complete outside protection.

Now let's say you are a dueler, who wants to target a worker at a hideout for his job. Let's use constructing a bridge. Firstly, the dueler who wants to attack the worker has to be able to do the job (unlikely because of labour points), and find the hideout (unlikely, because of the base requirements), and then, be in the same dueling level range. Also if the dueler requires work clothes to build a bridge, then he probably won't have the full dueling bonuses to an advantage.

Now if you add a +5 dodging and +5 tactics bonus to the defender in the hideout (versus the attacker in the hideout), then 9 out of 10, it will be even.

That answer it?
So you're saying that working one of these bonus locations gives you total immunity from being duelled at town while you're in this site, plus you can duel with anyone else at that spot regardless of their town location? While I like the idea I can't see it being accepted by the developers because its very complex. The more new features needed, the less likely it will make the list. It also cuts into their approach of making it reasonably easy to find duelling opponents. I suspect that goes against their concept, unfortunately.

I'd suggest that anyone could work a site openly (normal difficulty) or riskily (more danger, increased reward) defensively (higher difficulty, defensive bonuses if duelled) or lie in ambush (no work done, big defence bonuses if duelled) but you still travel to the home town if you want to fight. These modes don't need to be invisible until found. That would have a better chance of passing because it requires less remodelling of the game system to be implemented. It also adds some strategy - if you're duelled often it could well be worth hiding in ambush a few hours each day to discourage anyone who is victimising you.
 

BartBot

So you're saying that working one of these bonus locations gives you total immunity from being duelled at town while you're in this site, plus you can duel with anyone else at that spot regardless of their town location? While I like the idea I can't see it being accepted by the developers because its very complex. The more new features needed, the less likely it will make the list. It also cuts into their approach of making it reasonably easy to find duelling opponents. I suspect that goes against their concept, unfortunately.
*Sigh* Please read the whole summary before you comment.

You can only use these sites once per 24 hours (<< READ AGAIN!!!), and duel anyone else inside the hideout for dibs on it to kick them out of the hideout, otherwise no, you cannot duel anyone outside the hideout whilst doing the job until you finish the job and leave the hideout.

I also think this is overly complicated, and requires a serious amount of programming for rather small advantages. Why would you only be able to use it once in 24 hours? I respect the abuse-protection, but this gets too rediculous. If you know about a cabin, why not use it every time? I mean, it IS there, right?

Also, linking them to towns and players, unlinking them, the whole time based aspects... Too tedious, even if it is simple to use it.
Optional... No, actually no changes to current programming system, only the fact that you would create a network of "safe" spots, and a link and non-link. Heck, I know a friend that could do those codes.

Also a lot of people would complain about having no targets if you could use the hideout 24-7.
 
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Luap Nor

No, actually no changes to current programming system
:laugh: :laugh:

Also a lot of people would complain about having no targets if you could use the hideout 24-7.
Of course. His point was that the restriction was unintuitive in the real-world analog, which is correct (not that that stops anything in this game, heheh). He wasn't lobbying to implement it without the 1/day restriction, he was giving you one of the reasons he's lobbying against the idea entirely.
 

BartBot

I'd suggest that anyone could work a site openly (normal difficulty) or riskily (more danger, increased reward) defensively (higher difficulty, defensive bonuses if duelled) or lie in ambush (no work done, big defence bonuses if duelled) but you still travel to the home town if you want to fight. These modes don't need to be invisible until found. That would have a better chance of passing because it requires less remodelling of the game system to be implemented. It also adds some strategy - if you're duelled often it could well be worth hiding in ambush a few hours each day to discourage anyone who is victimising you.
Please put that in the Ideas and Brainfarts section. That is entirely different to what I said.

And as to Luap Nor, does Grumbold have a winning argument? I get what he's saying, but that doesn't stop the idea altogether. Heck, it is better the original way of once every 24 hours.
 
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