awol ghost

fergusferret

Well-Known Member
it appears we have a problem in fort fighting.. not only is the fairly new upgrade system making attackers overpowering with upgraded guns but the ghosting powers of advents seems to have got up and gone walkabout. advents on all worlds are being shot to pieces in a single round and at best 2 rounds in some cases. it is known that the premium for advents has been broken for a while now so I respectfully ask when we are expecting this feature of fort fighting to be fixed please.

you have a choice here .. fix the advents premium or face losing more cash as aadvents vote with their pockets. I know a few who have already stated they are not going to buy premium again until this issue is fixed.

oh and do not bother trying to argus about it not being broken. that could just lose you a load more players.
 

Slygoxx

The West Team
Marshal
Would it be possible to link to a westforts replay of it being broken? Including a player name and the round where it doesn't appear to work.
 

futurama1001

Well-Known Member
it appears we have a problem in fort fighting.. not only is the fairly new upgrade system making attackers overpowering with upgraded guns but the ghosting powers of advents seems to have got up and gone walkabout. advents on all worlds are being shot to pieces in a single round and at best 2 rounds in some cases. it is known that the premium for advents has been broken for a while now so I respectfully ask when we are expecting this feature of fort fighting to be fixed please.

you have a choice here .. fix the advents premium or face losing more cash as aadvents vote with their pockets. I know a few who have already stated they are not going to buy premium again until this issue is fixed.

oh and do not bother trying to argus about it not being broken. that could just lose you a load more players.
At the risk of putting my foot in my mouth here, and in direct violation of your concluding request, it's probably not broken. Just as dueller crits were never broken no matter how many times people complained about having a few unlucky battles or seeming to crit less often than their nemeses. It appears to be even more similar to those instances when you begin your bug report with a complaint about a different overpowered aspect of fort fighting.

If I'm wrong I'll gladly accept a slice of humble pie.
 
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PaPa PoPCoRN

Well-Known Member
I have advent premium character activated on w12, I haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary over the last 3 or 4 days, the odd big ghost fail for a round here and there perhaps but nothing out of the ordinary.
 

Pnevma

Well-Known Member
It's extremely difficult to test for ghosting RNG not working (as compared to testing for critical hits RNG not working).
It would be great if the FF log included not only how many times an advent "played dead", but also how many hits it took before he did so... Though if that breaks westforts.com, it probably isn't worth it :D
Otherwise, showing a particular fight in which a premium advent got hit 10 times will never be proof that ghosting chances are wrong (as that should happen about once every 250 times)
 

booey1

Member
I have been playing for a while now and am an advent on 4 worlds.
I pay for prem but cos it used to be worth it ,until recently .
Now it is not worth wasting my money or time as i regularly lose 6k or more in round after round,with best ff gear on and prem .
for this reason i am no longer gonna be playing the game never mind buying premium .
Good luck to you all in the future

Ask other advents and i think they will tell you the same ,if they get properly involved and are not hiders .
Just think its all gone wrong ,wont bother me im leaving but needs to be fixed for others or you may lose more people :(
 
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HelenBack

Well-Known Member
From a non-advent point of view... I expected Booey to survive quite a few rounds and recommended someone go to the flag just incase he lived and we lost our attack because he ghosted the way I've seen him ghost many times in the past... And he was dead in 2 rounds. If I remember correctly... There were probably about a dozen guns with LOS on him... (I think the Soldier Tower was partly full, the Advent Tower was half full, and there were 4-5 guns on the ground by him... and he was outside the AT. Or I might be thinking of another battle where another Advent disintegrated. :p)

Something is wrong... I have no idea how you are going to figure out what is wrong... or how to fix it... But yes... Something is wrong.

And Boo... ya better not leave! :(

Found 1 battle I remembered:
http://www.westforts.com/en17/battles/battle/32156

29 had LOS on him... but still, how many should have a shot on a prem Advent?

Advent bonus:
"Starting with hit 2 within one round of a fort battle, you have a chance of 25% to keep from being hit at all for the rest of the round."

Premium would change that to 50%? So 2 had the chance to hit... Then the last 27 would be reduced to 13.5 more possibilities... Maybe... But from past experience in many, many battles, I haven't seen such bad luck so consistently. This is just one example of many battles I've noticed this in. I'm not online much for battles these days.

But Boo is a very experienced fort fighter... I have both cursed and congratulated him quite a few times when he ghosted and held sectors for many rounds. It depended on if he was on my side or not... lol :D
 
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asdf124

Well-Known Member
From a non-advent point of view... I expected Booey to survive quite a few rounds and recommended someone go to the flag just incase he lived and we lost our attack because he ghosted the way I've seen him ghost many times in the past... And he was dead in 2 rounds. If I remember correctly... There were probably about a dozen guns with LOS on him... (I think the Soldier Tower was partly full, the Advent Tower was half full, and there were 4-5 guns on the ground by him... and he was outside the AT. Or I might be thinking of another battle where another Advent disintegrated. :p)

Something is wrong... I have no idea how you are going to figure out what is wrong... or how to fix it... But yes... Something is wrong.

And Boo... ya better not leave! :(
I do remember a certain someone reported the ghosting was too much from 1 player in w11, they might have needed it a bit........ Fergus, should know whom I am talking about, if not, I'll his let him know Ingame since I don't like players hating other players.

We lost a rush on flag order due to that excessive ghosting.
 

Meiros

Member
29 had LOS on him... but still, how many should have a shot on a prem Advent?

Advent bonus:
"Starting with hit 2 within one round of a fort battle, you have a chance of 25% to keep from being hit at all for the rest of the round."

Premium would change that to 50%? So 2 had the chance to hit... Then the last 27 would be reduced to 13.5 more possibilities...
Not like that. After the 1st 2 hits he had a 50% chance to not be hit even once, not 13.5 possibilities.
Better way to say it is like, in 2 rounds he should have ghosted atleast once. So 2+29 possibilities in 2 rounds= 15.5 chances of being hit in average per round.

Anyway, since the 50% chance is calculated each round, it's possible to ghost or not ghost 4-5 rounds in a row (theoretically possible to ghost all 55 rounds :p)

Here's a way to see. Google 'Random Number Generator' And get the application of your choice/ go to the Website of your choice.
Input Max as 100 & Min as 1 and generate a random number.
Every time u get 50 or more, it's a ghosting round. If u get between1-49, player did not ghost. Should give u a better idea than thinking "50% ghost chance in 6 rounds= ghost in 3 rounds"
Here's what I got: 49; 10; 89; 96; 21; 64 = 3 ghosts in 6 rounds
Next 8 tries: 4; 64; 1; 13; 6; 34; 46; 95 = 2 ghosts in 8 rounds.
So 50% doesn't mean u ghost 25 out of 50 rounds.

PS: I'm not an expert on ghosting & I don't know what is the actual formula used in the game to determine if a player ghosts that round. The Random Number Generator method should give a better picture of 50% chance mentioned in the Advent bonus, that's all.
So, as for whether ghosting is working or not, I don't know.
 

futurama1001

Well-Known Member
I do remember a certain someone reported the ghosting was too much from 1 player in w11, they might have needed it a bit........ Fergus, should know whom I am talking about, if not, I'll his let him know Ingame since I don't like players hating other players.

We lost a rush on flag order due to that excessive ghosting.
If you're trying to suggest that one player's ghosting percentage was higher than anyone else's, that's as ridiculous as the claims in the past that the system was rigged in favour of any particular dueller who seemed to be performing well at the time. Each time it's been nothing more than a case of sour grapes, or...

 

fergusferret

Well-Known Member
I do remember a certain someone reported the ghosting was too much from 1 player in w11, they might have needed it a bit........ Fergus, should know whom I am talking about, if not, I'll his let him know Ingame since I don't like players hating other players.

We lost a rush on flag order due to that excessive ghosting.

ghosting too much is irrelevant really and i am not interested in who that someone may have been.

the state of affairs is getting mad .. i have found my chances of ghosting are a lot better without premium. I have also found I have no chance of surviving more than 2 rounds as a tower blocker as premium and most of the time i am having to hop on and then swap the immediate round after swapping onto the blocking position. for an advent with 7k hp almost that is not good with premium on so i have stopped using premium. without premium i have found i can sit on a tower for 4 or 5 rounds with the same number of bullets flying my way.

I still say there is something wrong with premium for advents to lose their hp quite so quickly with it than without it.
 

Pnevma

Well-Known Member
Not like that. After the 1st 2 hits he had a 50% chance to not be hit even once, not 13.5 possibilities.
Better way to say it is like, in 2 rounds he should have ghosted atleast once. So 2+29 possibilities in 2 rounds= 15.5 chances of being hit in average per round.

Anyway, since the 50% chance is calculated each round, it's possible to ghost or not ghost 4-5 rounds in a row (theoretically possible to ghost all 55 rounds :p)

Here's a way to see. Google 'Random Number Generator' And get the application of your choice/ go to the Website of your choice.
Input Max as 100 & Min as 1 and generate a random number.
Every time u get 50 or more, it's a ghosting round. If u get between1-49, player did not ghost. Should give u a better idea than thinking "50% ghost chance in 6 rounds= ghost in 3 rounds"
Here's what I got: 49; 10; 89; 96; 21; 64 = 3 ghosts in 6 rounds
Next 8 tries: 4; 64; 1; 13; 6; 34; 46; 95 = 2 ghosts in 8 rounds.
So 50% doesn't mean u ghost 25 out of 50 rounds.

PS: I'm not an expert on ghosting & I don't know what is the actual formula used in the game to determine if a player ghosts that round. The Random Number Generator method should give a better picture of 50% chance mentioned in the Advent bonus, that's all.
So, as for whether ghosting is working or not, I don't know.
Meirus, that's only correct if you get hit only three times every round. If there are four people hitting you, then instead of each round having a random number uniform between 0 and 100, at each round you have the MAXIMUM between TWO random numbers uniform between 0 and 100. The chances of that being above 50 are higher.
If there are 5 enemies hitting you, you need the maximum between 3 random numbers, and so on...
That's because for EACH person after the 2nd one that shoots you, you have a chance of ghosting (for the rest of the round).
 

PaPa PoPCoRN

Well-Known Member
Last night on w12 as a Premium Advent I spent 9 rounds on AT/NW one out with a starting HP of 8K and at any given time I had 10-30 players with LOS on me, whilst on the fortifications I took 20 hits, dodged 30 shots , average of about 5.5 incoming shots per ghost, nothing out of the ordinary.
 

Meiros

Member
Meirus, that's only correct if you get hit only three times every round. If there are four people hitting you, then instead of each round having a random number uniform between 0 and 100, at each round you have the MAXIMUM between TWO random numbers uniform between 0 and 100. The chances of that being above 50 are higher.
If there are 5 enemies hitting you, you need the maximum between 3 random numbers, and so on...
That's because for EACH person after the 2nd one that shoots you, you have a chance of ghosting (for the rest of the round).
Lol. U got it wrong.

"Starting with hit 2 within one round of a fort battle, you have a chance of 25% to keep from being hit at all for the rest of the round." - From https://wiki.the-west.net/wiki/Character_Classes#Adventurer

So if u ghost for a particular round, everyone who had los on u will behave like u don't exist after that 2nd hit.
So the RNG only chooses once. If u ghost (Get higher than 50) you disappear from map and nobody shoots at you after that 2nd hit ;)
 

Slygoxx

The West Team
Marshal
The rng chooses every hit starting with the second one. If the second hit does not trigger the ghosting, you're hit for a third time. If that does trigger it, you don't exist for the rest of the round but if it doesn't trigger it, you can be hit for a fourth time, etc.
 

Pnevma

Well-Known Member
Lol. U got it wrong.

"Starting with hit 2 within one round of a fort battle, you have a chance of 25% to keep from being hit at all for the rest of the round." - From https://wiki.the-west.net/wiki/Character_Classes#Adventurer

So if u ghost for a particular round, everyone who had los on u will behave like u don't exist after that 2nd hit.
So the RNG only chooses once. If u ghost (Get higher than 50) you disappear from map and nobody shoots at you after that 2nd hit ;)

I agree that the description isn't perfectly clear, but as Slygoxx mentioned, every hit after the second hit in a round triggers the RNG
 

Meiros

Member
I agree that the description isn't perfectly clear, but as Slygoxx mentioned, every hit after the second hit in a round triggers the RNG
Yeah, the description could be better.
Using this formula, I can understand fergus & other's grief. 50% chance every hit after 1st gives a pretty high probability of ghosting.

The method mentioned earlier should still give a good idea of "50% chance every round does not mean 50% of the rounds". Maybe useful to see crits chance.

If anyone cares, U can see ghosting chance like this:
2 hits default every round and after that generate a Random number to see if u ghost. Continue until you ghost and then move on to the next round.
(Here we assume infinite shooters with Los)
Sample for 5 rounds:

Round 1: 2(default) + ghost(92) = 2 Hits
Round 2: 2(default) + 1(38) + 1(22) + ghost(82) = 4 Hits
Round 3: 2(default) + ghost(91) = 2 Hits
Round 4: 2(default) + ghost(74) = 2 Hits
Round 5: 2(default) +1(25) + ghost(94) =3 Hits

Gives 13 hits in 5 rounds. Average = 2.6 hits per round. Subtract the default 2 & u get .6 shots per round.

Now for the 13 shots let's check if any are crits (80+ in RNG):
30; 41; 39; 2; 40; 94; 53; 52; 93; 57; 28; 34; 97 = 3 crits (assuming everyone who hits is a dueler)
Assume dmg=400 (everyone who hits is high lvl with upgraded PSSR)
So total dmg in 5 rounds = 13*400 + 30% of total HP(assume 10k) = 8200

So a 10k HP advent having LOS from 4 or more duelers(with 400 avg damage per shot), not dodging any shot loses 8200 in 5 rounds.

(Disclaimer:
This is of course, just a instance. With RNG, every instance changes.
Also, many things were changed here. I have seen pure leadership builds do 900+ Dmg and then there is the 'ghost fail' when the RNG decides to not be your friend.
Also the 400 is just the average of lvl 3 PSSR, which can easily do 500+ dmg.
So the outcome in the real game could be better or worse depending upon a lot of factors. This demonstration just uses averages to see the probability of ghosting.)
 

fergusferret

Well-Known Member
what pnevma has missed here is the chance to dodge as well. but even so as a 7k advent having a better chance of ghosting in a blocking position without premium shows there is a problem there somewhere. we have already lost a high level good advent from the game over this and i know a lot of others not going premium as well, as they too have found their chances of ghosting are better without premium.

kind of begs the question 'is the advents premium bugged in some way?'

could also ask if anyone is going to bother to actually check it out.