Ask CM about the game

RaiderTr

Well-Known Member
Devs no longer have effect on the direction of the game I'm afraid.
Both are working abroad and part-time afaik.

So almost everything is up to LCM (or CM Specialist something) and his/her superior.

I mean Etriel plays/played the game but ain't in no way an expert on PvP, which you easily can tell by the Sets/Items she designed.

For PvE.. Which is what she supposed to be an expert..
Well.. I don't wanna comment.


In any case, they KNOW what brings them the best money: PvP
And they milk it well.

BUT
Not fixing it.
 

Pankreas PorFavor

Well-Known Member
Really? I'm writing what I am thinking and to some degree how I feel. Are you absolutely sure you want to maintain your claim that what I am writing is treating other players unfairly because that is really a poor argument to carry on with.
so it is fair to say that the players started the argument with Inno? they ask us for our opinion and then ignore it. we give suggestions and they ignore them. they do something, we say that it will have negative consequences, they ignore it, players leave. and that's happening for years. players started it? come on!
and then you even say that the players are running them down as people. just because we're not satisfied with the product we're paying for. you're telling us that we're not objective, that we're not constructive? after we posted pages and pages and pages of suggestions for changes or improvements for this game?
oh yeah, it is extremely unfair from your side to say that the players "have created this argument". it is unfair to say that we're not being constructive if you haven't read 12 years worth of ideas and brainfarts or development discussions and realized that almost none of them are implemented. it is unfair to say that we are attacking someone on a personal level if we criticize the way they are doing their job.

yes, it is unfair if you are telling a paying customer that they should enjoy when they are not satisfied with a product or service they received. if I tell the waiter that the food is cold, the cutlery is dirty and there is a cockroach in the salad and they just walk away, you have no right to tell me from where you're sitting that I should enjoy, stop complaining, be constructive and try to enjoy my food. especially if I eat here since they opened and this is your second time in the restaurant. you're not complaining about the quality of the restaurant and the fact that less and less people eat here every day, you're complaining about those who still come here and give suggestions on how things could be better? of course it's not nice to hear that things are bad, but you're more upset about people saying it than the fact that things really are bad? wow... it's even worse if you don't recognize that dropping from 17 million to this player base is not just bad but terrible. and that did not happen because of what I or anyone else writes in the forum.


A question was put forth by another member in this forum to management. "Will there be a new world this year?" The answer was yes. Now you can either get all strung out, rant on about it forever and then in the end pout over it or you can accept it. That is your choice. I am not telling you what to do. Yes you can disagree with anything and you can have your say but is all this arguing with Innogames actually helping?
khm... do you have the numbers? inside information I am not aware of? do you know they are not planning to implement something that might help the situation a bit? do you know that they did not give up on some drastic change because of strong reaction we had to something they already implemented? you know that the "secret project" won't include any of our suggestions?
yeah, this is sarcasm.
in the end - even if it is not helping, I am not going to just sit there like a rock while they're ruining this game. I have this forum, I can post here, reply to polls, answer to feedback requests. these are the tools I have and I am going to use them. if others want to shut their eyes and smile while cockroaches crawl on their plate, that's their choice, but I'm definitely going to tell the waiter about it and who knows, maybe they'll finally listen.

btw. I maybe wrote 2 sentences about the new world being open. I do not like it because I know that it will fail just like so many before it. but I accepted that fact many years before you started playing The West, probably around the time they opened Fairbanks? so no, thanks for worrying, I never pouted over it, ranted about it or got strung out.
 

Thanatoss

Well-Known Member
So for me there are 2 aspects that can make the game fun
1)the community aspect:
CMs play a big role here. He can host lots of server pvp events (like duel tournament or fort fight events) that make the game much more fun and engaging. And generally can spike the interest from time to time.
Most importantly the players need to work together to make everything work. For me more players=more fun. (The excessive p2w features though ruined much of the fun)

2)the development aspect:
Now this is the most important for me. While i can see why new features would be hard to implement, even the simplest of the changes are not done here or take far too long. The code is so bad that every time we see bugs even with item changes.
 

Thanatoss

Well-Known Member
I think most of us can agree that LCM is to blame for many things. To ruining most of the player base or to projects that were developed and later abandoned.
all browser games have died but not the west!!!
 

asdf124

Well-Known Member
I'm willing to revise what I write. Some members on this forum point their fingers and run down people, repeat people that manage this internet game. Even if the word INNO is used or simply "they", they are still people.
This is not starting an argument, this is the argument.



Can you prove this? Do you have inside corporate information that I am not aware of? Do you work for the accounting department of this company? Have you made a calculation of all income and expenses incurred by the company which includes operating costs? I'm going to assume like any company that employed people, those people on a desk are payed regardless of what their role is. If their time or part of their time involves this game then that along with many other things is an expense for the company. Of course this not my business. I don't want the responsibility or even inside information. I'm just wondering if I should believe what members are writing? Is it truthful or just speculation. Unless someone tells otherwise I'll assume it is only speculation.

I do like posting on this game forum but I don't want to join in with the banter or agree with this kind of negative assumption.

I am sorry some of the old members have seemed to loose their objectivity and have created this argument. INNO is not the wild beast who is out to destroy your world. I'm sorry if you feel that way. I am not your enemy either because in reality I'm just like you, a person who enjoys playing a game but would rather read about constructive arguments and less put-down's of the games owners. That's all I really wanted to say about that.

"That's all folk's" - bugs bunny lol
For years innogames since it acquired TW, it never advertised it. You do realize a browser game nowadays would only survive if it gets advertised. Else you’re just cooking it till it’s char black.

i am not like you, I decided to call it quits cause it became more of a chore than a game.

What you really don’t understand is, there are a lot more games out there. If you compare what’s being done at FoE vs TW, its like night and day. FoE has way more advertising done, like I am actually amazed by it.

The negativity in the forums were years in the making, and trust me it wasn’t my fault(even though I had a special reputation point of double red). I don’t think it was anyone’s fault in the forum. I feel like if they actually didn’t throw adventures like a failed project.

Easily so much potential just out of the window.

Shouldn’t the number of devs(most likely down to one), should probably be an indicator of how much inno wants to invest in TW?

So please tell me why this game hasn’t changed much since they added adventures. And by the way, adventures are fun if people knew what they were doing(btw most of the time they don’t). And that’s one of the negativity about that specific game mode.

They can easily add more game modes to adventures, and since they have not done that yet. I can assume they decided to put it at the trash. Yes speculating here.
What are they doing to the game now more than meme numbers?

Just more salt to add, more events, more quests. What I wish to see isn’t more quests or more events. I and probably a lot more are not enjoying the status quo.

Whether you like it or not, the **** storm
of the lead product manager of TW is self inflected.

And I feel like they just copy paste what they do on FoE, they do here.

I feel like you(@Poker Alice ) started not at the glory days of TW, but at its one of lowest points. The negativity didn’t happen in a blink of an eye(even though it feels like that for a few people). It is cumulative by years of negligence, unsafe repetition of back to back events. What you make it sound like a bandwagon that was just made, by a super villain. It was unfortunately not the case exactly.
Cause the super villain is the lead product manager of TW. Basically a byproduct of its own making.

Robbing pensioners with a bad product is fun I guess(Easy money)~basically what I deduced by innos actions thus far.
 

Clever Hans

Well-Known Member
That doesn't bother me since I can be quite content riding into town even on an ass.
Maybe it doesn´t bother you personally but it bothers all the other players that have quit/are quitting this game due to all the reasons already mentioned (no proper game development, lack of advertising, feedback from community ignored..) since there is no fun to play in empty worlds.
 

Pankreas PorFavor

Well-Known Member
You wrote that you like arguing with INNO that is anyone that represents INNO on how they manage the game.
No, I did not write that I like arguing with Inno. This is a perfect example why any conversation with you is impossible. You get something stuck in your mind, and you pay no attention to what the other person is saying.
The situation is absolutely opposite - I hate the fact that I have to write negative feedback. I did make a mistake when I accepted your terminology and continued to use the word "argue" because this is not in fact an argument. When the other side just says "thanks, I'll forward your feedback" and nothing ever happens based on it, then this is not an argument.

Now it seems you want to maintain an argument with me that I don't have the right to put in my two cents worth.
Again, absolutely wrong. We already did this same thing months ago... you have the right to say whatever you want, but when you're faced with the facts that disprove your claims, then you turn to this, me not letting you speak. Nonsense.


Fine but I'm not referring to 12 years in the past, I'm referring to now.
By ignoring how we got to "now". "Sir, I don't care why you're bleeding and who stabbed you 10 minutes ago, you're ruining my carpet, now get out!"

There has been other games and other websites that have had a fantastic following and then declined in numbers. This isn't always to do with mismanagement. Yes, people do make mistakes but the internet does move on and so drawing a conclusion that player numbers have fallen because the game was ruined just doesn't cut it.
OK, I guess we'll go with what you say and not what players who are here since 2008 have seen.

I've never accepted your logic or comparison that players are buying a product.
What you accept or don't accept has absolutely no impact on this being true or not. Innogames is a business and they're trying to make a profit. They get that from players who play their games. The mechanism how this is done is irrelevant. The money goes from players pockets to Innogames, and if Inno wants that money, they need to make the games they produce attractive to as many people as possible.


This is a free game online
Here's a short life lesson that you should have learned by now - when something is free, it means that you are the "merchandise" that is being sold. In the example of The West the simple truth is that the players are the main content of this game. Allowing them to play for free is the way to provide that content - targets for duels, fighters in fort battles, other professions that help you advance in crafting, someone for general interaction in chat and forum, etc. And if you like that, you may decide to spend a bit of cash on nuggets that make it easier to advance in this game. Perfect setup.


You comparison does not apply to this business model. There is a reason to make this distinction. How this online game functions is not only legal but does so in a fair way. Any kind of real world argument you might create will not hold up as any kind of player demand.
"Real world argument"? So this is not the real world, players are not spending real money and Innogames employees don't get their salary from it? This is a game that a company makes, trying to attract players hoping that it will be attractive enough for some of them and that they'll spend real money on it. And they do, but less and less every day.


Players always do have a choice. If a player chooses to purchase game gold that does not give them any rights to run a business.
And nobody is saying that we have the right to run Innogames, so this is absolutely a pointless argument you're trying to make.

But, most of what you wrote is like that. You're not reading and understanding what is being written. You started your post with something untrue ("you wrote that you like arguing with Inno"), then you add more in the middle ("you don't give me the right to put in my 2c worth")... and complain how it's hard for you to have a civilized conversation with me? You know what, I'll make it easier for you then:
 

lulumcnoob

Well-Known Member
Here's a short life lesson that you should have learned by now - when something is free, it means that you are the "merchandise" that is being sold. In the example of The West the simple truth is that the players are the main content of this game. Allowing them to play for free is the way to provide that content - targets for duels, fighters in fort battles, other professions that help you advance in crafting, someone for general interaction in chat and forum, etc. And if you like that, you may decide to spend a bit of cash on nuggets that make it easier to advance in this game. Perfect setup.
+1



This is a free game online and the real money that a player can choose to spend is for game advantage.
Fine but I'm not referring to 12 years in the past, I'm referring to now. There has been other games and other websites that have had a fantastic following and then declined in numbers. This isn't always to do with mismanagement. Yes, people do make mistakes but the internet does move on and so drawing a conclusion that player numbers have fallen because the game was ruined just doesn't cut it.
Yes it is "free to play", and the f2p content is vital for the game to function, but so is the premium content for obvious reasons including actually making it a viable business for InnoGames. The relationship between the free content and the premium content needs to be attractive to both groups of players, and it simply is not, at the moment.


"The freemium business model is known as the “business model of the Internet”. The term freemium combines the words ‘Free’ and ‘Premium’. The basic product is available for free. The company generates revenue by offering connected premium product, i.e. additional functions or services which usually attract a small number of users. By giving away the basic product for free it is easier to lure users and create a customer base. This business model pattern is one of the most widely used for Internet start-ups."


You can see it as arguing, or providing customer feedback as requested, or being passionate about an antique game that's far from its former award-winning state - no one's going to stop you from expressing your feelings, and no one's going to stop someone explaining why they disagree, that's the whole point of a forum.

For years innogames since it acquired TW, it never advertised it.
Innogames made TW, and I found it through an ad on youtube. *Shrugs*
 
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Pankreas PorFavor

Well-Known Member

if you don't see the difference between "I am arguing" and "I like arguing", then I can't help you.
it's maybe because you are blind and you like being blind...


Innogames made TW, and I found it through an ad on youtube. *Shrugs*
I was invited by a friend who saw an ad somewhere. Then I saw a few myself. I've seen Inno's advertisements for their other games on TV, even recently, but never for TW, not even online in the last 10 years or so.
 
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Clever Hans

Well-Known Member
Not sure though if feedback is being requested on decisions being made by the company. Thanks for providing the link.:up:
Have you ever read the feedback threads created by CMs after every single update? They literally have feedback in title.


Not to mention Beta forum where the feedback is requested before the updates come here.

I was invited by a friend who saw an ad somewhere. Then I saw a few myself. I've seen Inno's advertisements for their other games on TV, even recently, but never for TW, not even online in the last 10 years or so.
I started to play after seeing one of The West adverts on local forum (something similar to Reddit). The adverts were sadly discountinued after v2.0 was released and they relied on promoting TW on other Inno games.
 
Here we just talk to each other. I read what you wrote, you read what I wrote, anyone who believes there will be more is just wasting their time and energy. Inno or CM neither cares what you write or say even. Turn off your computer and go for a walk, it will be better for you
 

RaiderTr

Well-Known Member
Even if we are getting newbies, most don't stick around.
This game doesn't even have a mobile version. Which "decent" browser game doesn't have one nowadays?

So yes,most of the small player-base we have consists of die-hard fans/veterans.
 

Beefmeister

Well-Known Member
hey community managers...i have a question

is there any world at all that does not have the tower bonuses implemented? i wanna start playing there

PS: across all countries, worlds opened...everywhere related to the west. not on .net
 
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Harriet Oleson

Well-Known Member
To come back to a message written several pages earlier :
"Secret project" doesn't have that much extension though.
Just some more max levels (which some players will reach instantly) , some new jobs and some more useless quests.
Will this really be only that ? In the video Nyborg posted page 1 about the project, a modification of fort battles damage and resistance formulas was mentioned. I don't know if this has already been implemented or if this is about something new ? The video was posted on YT one year ago, but it says it was already on a testing phase at that time.

About the max level reached right away, in the comments section of the video when players talked about their worries, the team answered : "Balancing measures will be implemented :). Most likely, we will not implement the maximum level all at once, and only releasing it in stages". Personally I hope the levelling up from a certain level will also be eased, as "balancing mesure".