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Ask CM about the game

RaiderTr

Well-Known Member
Thanks for honesty and transparency Nielsen, I hope they won't can you for that.

I mean I knew Diggo was updating the code for a while now but didn't know updating the game depended on that..

I wish they made him full-time though.
 

Thanatoss

Well-Known Member
@mnnielsen the code of the game is a mess

A suggestion:
Instead of updating the code of this game better create a new the west.

It hardy gets any new players and i guess it will only get worse each year but game will not die as it has already been through its worst.

Remake the game. Re-launch the game.
 

mnnielsen

The West Team
Community Manager
@mnnielsen the code of the game is a mess

A suggestion:
Instead of updating the code of this game better create a new the west.

It hardy gets any new players and i guess it will only get worse each year but game will not die as it has already been through its worst.

Remake the game. Re-launch the game.
The game is sort of an old vintage sort of lady, there are some quirks and flaws, but we love her anyway - a real relaunce of the game is probably not going to happen, but things are changed behind the scenes and they take some time ..... but the game also has a certain nostalgic meaning as it is the game under the auspices of INNO that is the oldest running and I personally do not think that the guys who created it at the time had foreseen that it would run here over a decade later .... And we can only thank you players for that :-))
 

lulumcnoob

Well-Known Member
The game is sort of an old vintage sort of lady, there are some quirks and flaws, but we love her anyway - a real relaunce of the game is probably not going to happen, but things are changed behind the scenes and they take some time ..... but the game also has a certain nostalgic meaning as it is the game under the auspices of INNO that is the oldest running and I personally do not think that the guys who created it at the time had foreseen that it would run here over a decade later .... And we can only thank you players for that :-))
You understand your players, thank you for that, but is there not a massive difference from what you say - this is a nostalgic, vintage game that no one thought would still be played in 2021 - and what the game's management, who afaik doesn't actually play the game, threatens us with - level cap increases which will further destroy the parts of the game that we play it for & spend money on (duels and forts), new worlds which will continue the cycle of destroying the previous one, no migrations and no PvP fixes, and of course, more fecking tombolas and clicky events than not even Berry Pickers can possibly keep up with.

It's just so bizarre that a manager from FoE or a manager from the Danish server can come in and instantly get this community, but the people who actually run the game and decide which content to add or tweak don't have the slightest clue - but plough ahead anyway on the path of self-destruction.

Bring back a Classic version with fort battles, the version after tower bonuses were added, call it West 3.0, job done you've saved The West.
It would be more than worth the wait for the development time on a project like that.

I see how often the Facebook group plays off of the nostalgia of Classic, they use the old avatars or the old interface in about 1 in 3 posts there.
Even the social media people know what's up.

Of course, I wouldn't actually recommend championing your communities desires or being too honest or single-handedly revitalising a server without much hope for the future of our beloved game, the last thing we want is for someone else to be shown the door for being a good Community Manager.
 
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RaiderTr

Well-Known Member
I see how often the Facebook group plays off of the nostalgia of Classic, they use the old avatars or the old interface in about 1 in 3 posts there.
Even the social media people know what's up.
I find it quite annoying them teasing us with the original game while the one we play got nothing to do with it anymore!

Stop abusing the nostalgia!

Of course, I wouldn't actually recommend championing your communities desires or being too honest or single-handedly revitalising a server without much hope for the future of our beloved game, the last thing we want is for someone else to be shown the door for being a good Community Manager.
Rip Nyborg :-(
 
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mnnielsen

The West Team
Community Manager
Y'all have a bizarre way on thanking the players in the misc. communities in this game.
When all comes to all.... If you didn't, play then we wouldn't have a job - you are the core task..... maybe it's because I'm educated in retail as well as in the psychiatry RN field (yes I'm not a spring hare) and not behind a screen that my mindset is strange
 

mnnielsen

The West Team
Community Manager
You understand your players, thank you for that, but is there not a massive difference from what you say - this is a nostalgic, vintage game that no one thought would still be played in 2021 - and what the game's management, who afaik doesn't actually play the game, threatens us with - level cap increases which will further destroy the parts of the game that we play it for & spend money on (duels and forts), new worlds which will continue the cycle of destroying the previous one, no migrations and no PvP fixes, and of course, more fecking tombolas and clicky events than not even Berry Pickers can possibly keep up with.

It's just so bizarre that a manager from FoE or a manager from the Danish server can come in and instantly get this community, but the people who actually run the game and decide which content to add or tweak don't have the slightest clue - but plough ahead anyway on the path of self-destruction.

Bring back a Classic version with fort battles, the version after tower bonuses were added, call it West 3.0, job done you've saved The West.
It would be more than worth the wait for the development time on a project like that.

I see how often the Facebook group plays off of the nostalgia of Classic, they use the old avatars or the old interface in about 1 in 3 posts there.
Even the social media people know what's up.

Of course, I wouldn't actually recommend championing your communities desires or being too honest or single-handedly revitalising a server without much hope for the future of our beloved game, the last thing we want is for someone else to be shown the door for being a good Community Manager.

To be honest - the most of the CM team are actually active players even if it does not work like that once in a while!
I can easily understand the sum of what you say, and it also makes really good sense ... But people are different, some love to talk to other people, some are quieter stay a little in the background, but still capture the things that become said.

But pretty much everything that is done in the game is based on feedback from the players. Every year, we hold a large meeting, where we plan what to focus on in the coming year as the primary tasks - things are roughly divided into must and can tasks.
sometimes things just take a little longer because even though it's an 'older lady' we work with, it still has to keep up with the times ..... and yes, it does not always succeed, but we strives for it, but it This is one of the reasons why your feedback is SUPER important, and that great demands are made on the team and especially the CM, in order to pick out all the feedback you players that comes with, so that it can move on to the right place. :)
 

RaiderTr

Well-Known Member
He was referring to "above-CM" level management but yea, .Net had a lot of CMs that actually never ever played the game. (Like the one before Nyborg)
pretty much everything that is done in the game is based on feedback from the players.
I wish that was true but most things have been done in a way Players didn't want.

Unless of course there is a secret Feedback place where there are many more players asking for different things?

Because for years all I've seen was more time killing Quests with "meh" rewards and beep boop Clicky events.

But of course they don't forget to make and sell powerful PvP sets in the mean time while fixing/updating nothing about PvP features!

Which I call "scamming" or at least "abusing"


Ps. Check our signatures and see..
 

mnnielsen

The West Team
Community Manager
He was referring to "above-CM" level management but yea, .Net had a lot of CMs that actually never ever played the game. (Like the one before Nyborg)

I wish that was true but most things have been done in a way Players didn't want.

Unless of course there is a secret Feedback place where there are many more players asking for different things?

Because for years all I've seen was more time killing Quests with "meh" rewards and beep boop Clicky events.

But of course they don't forget to make and sell powerful PvP sets in the mean time while fixing/updating nothing about PvP features!

Which I call "scamming" or at least "abusing"


Ps. Check our signatures and see..
Ohh Im well aware of this :-D and have been forwarding your suggestions on in my rapports :)
When I first became a CM here at The West, I had only played the game a couple of months, and was still pretty active at playing FoE..... but if you want to try to do things properly, you have to at least have to try to understand what and who you are dealing with - where you choose to put your focus and energy, is largely up to personality and where one's strengths are.
But in the team above me, there are actually also some pieces that are active players, to the extent their time is for it :)
 

RaiderTr

Well-Known Member
but if you want to try to do things properly, you have to at least have to try to understand what and who you are dealing with - where you choose to put your focus and energy, is largely up to personality and where one's strengths are.
Thing is, upper management doesn't actually require you to do it "properly"
Otherwise Nyborg would still be here, despite his some "mistakes"

They are more than happy with Copy-Paste CMs with standard canned responds time to time.

Hence we appreciate and respect your efforts.

"based on feedback" means "we will do the opposite"?
More like "they" as CMs ain't really got much allowance.

Not even allowed to "Manage" their Community for the most part.

But well u already knew that.
 

Pankreas PorFavor

Well-Known Member
there is a section of the forum called "Development discussions". it's where proposals were given and players would vote about them. if they passed voting, they were submitted "upstairs".

of course, if one would go there they would see that about 90% of ideas are submitted by Raider, lulu and me. and you will see that they were all rejected by other players because everyone disagrees with us. or not?
maybe there were ideas by hundreds of other players, maybe a lot of them passed the voting, and maybe only a few of them got implemented? maybe it was so useful to Inno that they decided not to bother with it and haven't put anything up for voting for years? that's how they show their "love for feedback".
I don't know, I could check or I could just accuse some other members of this forum for saying nonsense. I could also go to the beta worlds forum and check the feedback of players there? is it also just Raider, lulu and Pank? it must be!
oh, there's just so many things I could do instead of pointing fingers and trying to start an argument....
but nah, too much effort.

btw. I don't know if this means anything about "we the players" but why not put it out there?
download.png
 

Clever Hans

Well-Known Member
Perhaps some parts of the code are outdated but that doesn't explain why even simple changes like updating shop cloths take years to finish or some simple issues like changing the starting numbers in battles are not happening either, despite the feedback from players. Innogames makes the profit through nuggets but very little of it is invested back to the game. There is barely any new content this year (if someone doesn't count repeated events and occasional new quest) and changes are implemented without discussion with players. It happened when v2.0 was launched, it's happening again with "secret project".
 

Pankreas PorFavor

Well-Known Member
Perhaps some parts of the code are outdated but that doesn't explain why even simple changes like updating shop cloths take years to finish or some simple issues like changing the starting numbers in battles are not happening either, despite the feedback from players.
exactly, there are extremely simple things that can be done to improve the game, and the guy who started looking into it got fired.

btw. what are you trying to do or say with this "feedback from players"? lulu, raider and me already represent the community and there's no room for the fourth person :cooln::-D
 

Pankreas PorFavor

Well-Known Member
I'm willing to revise what I write. Some members on this forum point their fingers and run down people, repeat people that manage this internet game. Even if the word INNO is used or simply "they", they are still people.
This is not starting an argument, this is the argument.
yes. we are arguing with Innogames or their representatives here for not implementing any of the feedback (even that which they asked for). Inno has every right to do what they want with this game, of course. nobody is opposing that. but, we do disagree with how they are managing it. this is a relationship between a business and a customer. there's nothing personal here. if someone is insulted or hurt as a person when their customer is not satisfied with their product, then they have a huge problem and they're in the wrong line of business.
if I say that they are not doing their job properly (from "17 million players worldwide", 2x browser game of the year to closing worlds because of inactivity while ignoring players suggestions that would prevent or decrease this loss of inactivity), then I am not saying that they are bad people. if I tell you that something you did was wrong, I am talking about one of your actions, not about you as a person. everyone should know how to separate the two. this is what happens when someone does their job - they make mistakes. and they get criticized for it. in normal circumstances they listen to the feedback, own up to their mistakes and try to correct them. in every line of work, everywhere in the world. they also get praised for things they do well. some people even get a forum topic where this appreciation is expressed...
now, if you can find an example where I personally attacked any member of Inno staff, I will be happy to apologize. I am sure other people in this forum would do the same. but I am not going to apologize because I dislike how they reduced a once great game to what it is today.

Can you prove this? Do you have inside corporate information that I am not aware of?
search engines are a wonderful thing... I have no intention on digging up Inno's statements about not investing in browser games anymore and focusing on mobile, or what (previous) staff members have shared about the number of developers and other contributors that are working on The West (LOL, I used plural). and have you seen all those commercials and advertisements for The West? how about other games by Inno? it all boils down to - investment is only slightly above 0, just enough to keep things from falling apart completely. income on the other hand? have you seen people in level 2 or level 3 upgraded nugget-only sets? do the math.
or you can also dream on how a corporation is losing money on this game and keeping it alive for sentimental reasons.
in any case, nobody from Inno has ever said anything opposite to what was said above - in this forum or anywhere else that I am aware of. "we have this many developers for TW, we're doing this and that, we're investing big amounts because we want to improve this game" - nothing like this has ever been said. I am not saying they should say it or disclose their business plans, but the information that is available + the state of the game + closing the developer's blog + the rate and content of changes and updates = it paints a pretty clear picture.


I do like posting on this game forum but I don't want to join in with the banter or agree with this kind of negative assumption.

I am sorry some of the old members have seemed to loose their objectivity and have created this argument. INNO is not the wild beast who is out to destroy your world. I'm sorry if you feel that way. I am not your enemy either because in reality I'm just like you, a person who enjoys playing a game but would rather read about constructive arguments and less put-down's of the games owners. That's all I really wanted to say about that.
want constructive arguments? move on to Brainfarts & Ideas or Development Discussion part of the forum. then check how much of that was implemented. see the yearly roadmaps Inno published, the feedback, and how much got implemented in the end. then tell us how we are wrong to "argue" and that we're "not objective" and we should "enjoy the ride" from 17 million players, worlds with 40.000+ players, multiple battles every day full of onliners, duel targets everywhere, constant discussion in chat, forums full of posts to the state of the game today, with 150 active accounts in a world, nobody using the chat for 10 hours straight, etc.

nobody is asking you to "join the banter" or agree with anything. but how can you tell us not to disagree with this? how can you tell us that we're not constructive when years of feedback are ignored? is it not an objective fact that 17 million players + ignoring their feedback = dead worlds? we're being negative? what else should we be? happy? satisfied? how?!?
you may use a lot of words, but it all boils down to one sentence - "shut up and be happy". we're talking about years of constructive feedback and years of being ignored. now we're at a phase where a lot of the old members of this community are simply negative and they have a whole lot of reasons to be so. I am sorry you were not around 10-12 years ago, because I'm sure you would be as disappointed as we are. if you would still be here and not one of those 16.99+ million players who left already.

you're saying you are not the enemy, but you are in fact the one who is not objective here. no, the players did not create this argument. Inno introduced changes like tombolas - players reacted and said that it will have a negative impact. result is that a significant number of players left. Inno stopped advertising the game, players asked why it's being abandoned - no reaction. more players leave. in a general statement to the public, Inno said how they are moving away from browser games and focusing on games for mobile devices. players leave. players are asked for feedback and suggestions in the forum - proposals that got the support are ignored and not implemented. again players leave. they do something in beta, get negative feedback or bugs reported - it still gets rolled out to regular worlds. more players leave. and your conclusion is that players have created this argument with Inno... that's just insulting to anyone who ever invested any effort, energy and time in trying to find ways to make this game better. it is a very unfair way to treat your fellow players.
 

Clever Hans

Well-Known Member
Can you prove this? Do you have inside corporate information that I am not aware of? Do you work for the accounting department of this company? Have you made a calculation of all income and expenses incurred by the company which includes operating costs?
They wouldn´t still run this game after all these years if it wasn´t profitable, would they?

Some of us TW veterans play this game for more than a decade now and we remember times when game development was on much higher level and changing fonts or removing tabs in names of the items were not considered enough to be called an update.

Isn't it the point where game started to go downhill

"Secret project" doesn't have that much extension though.
Just some more max levels (which some players will reach instantly) , some new jobs and some more useless quests.
It was done with the minimal feedback from community and the new version was rolled out overnight without much of testing. And as a result, we went down from worlds with 40k+ players to 2k worlds in less than a year after v2.0 release.

This is also my issue with the "secret project". There is absolutely no need to carry over such project in "secrecy". Engaging players would go long way to finally move the game in the right direction. No one knows the game better than every day players and honestly, many of changes in the recent years felt like devs either don´t play this game or are completely out of touch with players needs.