another dueling option??

zd3no

Well-Known Member
Thomas, when I'll have some free time I'd like to make a screen shot or two for your proposal. Until then, if you want to edit your first post and adjust it a bit to reflect on all the question you have received that would be great. Break it down into sections if you want, it's a big idea.
 

Sater

Member
I like this idea a lot TR :)

Personally I am not confused at all by this idea... it's basically a replacement of Duel Level, which is what all Duellers are searching for if Inno's going to go against 0 Mots. The percentages and whatnot could be worked out by Inno staff. Everything about this idea is a 9.5/10 from me (the last .5 - always room for improvement!)

The reputation thing is very important, especially in The West. Like you said, there's outlaws and lawmen. Bounties don't mean too much right now, but bounty someone with a negative reputation? You're going to attract people who want that extra $$$ and Bonds.

Perhaps something to add with the "outlaws": You get a bond payout depending on the bounty on them?

Let's say a person with a negative reputation has a $10,000 bounty on them. You get paid an extra Bond if you beat them and if it's a Dead or Alive bounty, and an extra 5 Bonds if it's a Dead (KO) bounty. Then when their bounty is $20,000, you get paid 2 Bonds for Alive and 8 Bonds for Dead, etc.

The payouts couldn't be too big, as it could be then be abused by the millionaires of the world, but I think an extra something for taking down a wanted outlaw could be added. It would definitely entice a new role of the game, bounty hunters, and give lots more purpose to bounties than to put $$$ on the 0 mot Duellers few can beat right now.

I hope that was easy to understand, and if you like it, maybe add it. But again, it's all up to you and your discretion :) I love the idea either way!
 
I sorta like it. But, I have one question. What happens to the exp you gain from a duel? Do you still gain it or is it replaced by reputation, bonds, etc...
I duel for the exp mostly and would not like this idea if it was not apart of dueling anymore.
 

Thomas Ryker

Well-Known Member
1st thanks Sater, you've got it figured out


I sorta like it. But, I have one question. What happens to the exp you gain from a duel? Do you still gain it or is it replaced by reputation, bonds, etc...
I duel for the exp mostly and would not like this idea if it was not apart of dueling anymore.
you would still get your regular exp to help you gain level, the key is no more duel level exp as duel level would be gone
 
That's the part I'm not in favor of at all. I'm also not a fan of money coming out of the bank. It's in the bank for a reason and that is to protect you from losing it when getting ko'd...job, duel, or otherwise. Sorta defeats the purpose IMO. Interesting idea to say the least. Just a couple of kinks to iron out. But, I'm definitely liking where this could go. It would add a new dynamic to the game.
 

Thomas Ryker

Well-Known Member
That's the part I'm not in favor of at all. I'm also not a fan of money coming out of the bank. It's in the bank for a reason and that is to protect you from losing it when getting ko'd...job, duel, or otherwise. Sorta defeats the purpose IMO. Interesting idea to say the least. Just a couple of kinks to iron out. But, I'm definitely liking where this could go. It would add a new dynamic to the game.
I thought you said you duel for exp?? why don't you like it then, you still get the exp when dueling... but duel level doesn't exist, so no duel level exp...

and the idea on money from bank would only be on those with a negative duel Reputation, the oulaws, the ones who make a living off of the weak/non dueler. personally, I think it would be an interesting challange for players who want to be an outlaw
 
Well, when I exp duel, I duel those with a higher duel lvl to get more exp. That's where I was going with that. Just a way to have an option to gain more exp points. But, I'm really not a fan at all of the bank issue. I'm sure you could come up with another way to make being an outlaw a challenge, along as a good guy has a different but equally challenging issue. I still like the idea as a whole though. :)
 

zd3no

Well-Known Member
Just want to say for the record, taking money from the bank is not acceptable. Find another way to bring monetary rewards.
 

Thomas Ryker

Well-Known Member
Just want to say for the record, taking money from the bank is not acceptable. Find another way to bring monetary rewards.
I know most don't like this. So help me with some ideas. I will tell you what I am grappling with, and why that is out there still.
1. this would only effect (outlaws) those with a negative Reputation
2. the only way money would come from a bank account, was to match a bounty on your head.
Ex. if I had -100 Rep and a bounty of $1000 on my head, someone duels me and I lose, I would lose $1000 from my bank. if I had -500 Rep and a bounty of $1000 on my head, someone duels me and I lose, I would lose $5000 from my account.
3. the one dueling me and winning would also get related bonds and % of cash I carry...

now why I propose this
1. trying to make being an outlaw (someone with negative Rep) a bit more difficult, as these players are preying on players which are not good duelers, or don't want to duel (as they have more loses then wins driving the outlaws Rep ever lower).
2. I thought of just having the bonus cash come from thin air, but then you fear players becoming cash farms for other players, so bonuses on the heads of outlaws need to come from someplace else
3. if you are an outlaw and lose a duel, I thought about having them drug to jail, and they have to pay $ to get out, but this just complicated things even more
4. The key thing I am striving for, is to offer a dueling option that will benefit all the players and not just those that enjoy going around shooting things up, because of this, I want to make being an Outlaw (someone with negative Rep) more of a challenge, as they... well steal and kill the 'innocent' (players not wanting to duel).

If you can think of any other way to make being an Outlaw more of a challenge, without letting them turn into some sort of farm, I am all ears.
 

Sater

Member
How about if things just cost more money for them? Like an outlaw "fee"?

Let's say in the real Wild West, you were an outlaw and you came into a town that's heard of your exploits. You're obviously not going to be welcomed with open arms. The lawmen would be on your toes. So perhaps when a person has negative reputation, their bank fees, hotel costs, market fees, etc. go up, as the people are afraid to do business with them.

Maybe even on the market there'd be an inflation of price as traders would be afraid to do business with known criminals who could try to cheat the deal. (For example, if a Doc's Tie was posted for $10k, outlaws would have to purchase it for $12k. It could be a set percentage, maybe a tiered system depending on the level of negative reputation).

Perhaps there could be random encounters in foreign towns as well, since there is a Sheriff's office. Let's say for every 10 minutes you stay in a foreign town, a deputy comes after you? Or something along those lines. Especially if you're at the foreign town to duel.

Again, just a suggestion, but maybe this'd be acceptable?
 

Thomas Ryker

Well-Known Member
Ok, so lets see what the thoughts are on this as a penalty for being an outlaw, just not sure about the coding...(expanding on Sater's proposal)

if you are an outlaw in a foreign town, every 10 mins you are there, you have a random chance of an encounter with the Sheriff. Chance of encounter depends on how bad of an outlaw you are. These encounters are a shootout with the local sheriff (some randomly generated NPC, or could be a job the town could give to a town member, and his stats are used for these duels). Two outcomes could happen; one, the outlaw wins and continues on with what he is doing, or two, he loses and is thrown in jail.

Getting thrown in jail would give the player 2 options; pay fine or serve time, both based on how 'bad' of an outlaw you are. Example, if you have a -200 REP, you could either pay a $2000 fine or spend 2 hours in jail. -450 Rep, $4500 fine or 4.5 hours in jail. the negative to staying in jail, is your HP and EP are both frozen so there is no benifit to being caught and staying in jail.

As far a the chance of an encounter, it to is based on how bad your Rep is, taking 1/10th of your Rep as a chance of an encounter. Ex. if your REP is -200, you would have a 20% chance of an encounter, if it is -350 a 35% chance of an encounter. an encounter doesn't mean going to jail, as you still have to lose against the towns Sheriff. I also think if the town is a town in your alliance, the chance of an encounter is cut in half. Ex. -200 REP in an alliance town would be only a 10% chance of an encounter.

(there would be no extra fees on buying items as Sater proposed though)

let me know what your thoughts are on this, I think this is better then the option of taking cash from an outlaws bank.
 

zd3no

Well-Known Member
That to me at least is acceptable and quite frankly logical as well, however I wouldn't necessarily loop it every 10 min. I could very well live with just a single chance each time you are in a foreign town. Let me explain why: when you travel to a foreign town is basically for 3 reasons (duel someone, sleep, shop / market). So each time you arrive to a town, you have a chance just like you explained to encounter the town's sheriff. Afterwards you can stay there as long as you want, but each time you arrive at a foreign town, your dice is rolled for you. That means that even if you queued sleep, as soon as you arrive, the duel (if triggered) will happen and then you go to sleep.

The sheriff is a mirror image of your skills.
 

Gandalf Greyhame

Well-Known Member
Mirror of your own skills is rather overpowered if you have a specialized build. The cookie cutter aim/dodge dex build, it'l just be a tossup with stances. I'd rather it be a tough randomly generated NPC.
 

Parafrog

Bigger towns in the old west attracted more visitors, while in smaller towns you have a better chance of encountering a sheriff. Maybe the chance of a random duel should be higher in a town with a larger population and the chance of being jailed could be higher in a town with a smaller population - assuming they have a sheriff's office. No sheriff's office should mean zero chance of being jailed.
 

Thomas Ryker

Well-Known Member
ok, reworked this a bit, let me know if it is clear or if I missed anything:

Proposal
Rework the current dueling system, to give some protection to those who wish not to duel and to give a more balanced playing field for those that do, while giving some chances to gain bonds from dueling. We know the existing system has created the 0 mot duelers, duelers who don't want to face players many levels above them who have more AP/SP to spend and better level weapons to use, this system will also eliminate the need for 0 mot duelers.

The bases for my proposal is to eliminate the existing dueling level and to replace it with a dueling Reputation. In the old west, a gunslinger was known by his Reputation, how well he used his gun and by who he used it on. What I propose is a system that will have a players Reputation either rise or fall based on who they choose to duel. If you duel someone with more wins then loses your Reputation will rise, if you duel someone with more loses then wins your Reputation will fall.

Details
1st - 'Dueling Level' would be eliminated and replaced with 'Dueling Reputation'

2nd - each character overview would need a new line added, showing +, 0, or -. representing if the player has more wins or loses (no number, just the symbol)

Based on the defenders win/lose record, the attackers reputation will increase or decrease.
- Beating a positive win/lose record player - increases your 'Dueling Reputation'
- Beating a negative win/lose record player - decreases your 'Dueling Reputation'
The increase/decrease in dueling reputation is based on the player beaten record (ex. a win/lose record of 100/50 would be a +50 to players reputation, a win/lose record of 50/100 would be a -50 to players reputation)

3rd - Bonuses gained
- Beating a player with a positive 'Dueling Reputation' would gain you 1 bond for every 100 Reputation points (ex. 110 = 1 bond, 250 = 2 bonds, 540 = 5 bonds)
- Beating a player with a negative 'Dueling Reputation' would gain you 1 bond for every -100 Reputation points (ex -130 = 1 bond, -273 = 2 bonds, -670 = 6 bonds)

4th - Duel motivation would be used as a multiplier on final cash and xp received. (ex 100% mot - $100 = $100, 50% mot - $100 = $50)

5th - Also a weekly bond bonus given, based off of either or both, increase in 'Dueling Reputation' for the week, or overall standing in 'Dueling Reputation' at the end of the week (nothing given for a negative dueling reputation)

6th - the negative to having a bad reputation, or what I call the 'outlaw', someone who preys on the 'innocent' those not equipped or designed as duelers.
- if you are an 'outlaw' and venture into a foreign town (not your home town), you have a random chance of having a run-in with the local law. This chance is a percentage based on 1/10th of your reputation. (ex -120 rep = 12% chance of an encounter)
- an encounter consists of a duel with a NPC player (this could be randomly generated, a mirror image, or maybe a mirror of one of the town members that was given the job of sheriff. this is still open for debate)
- the outcome of the duel; a win, nothing happens and the player continues on, a lose and the player is thrown in jail.
- if thrown in jail, the player has 2 options; pay fine or serve time, both based on how 'bad' of an outlaw you are. Example, if you have a -200 REP, you could either pay a $2000 fine or spend 2 hours in jail. -450 Rep, $4500 fine or 4.5 hours in jail. the negative to staying in jail, is your HP and EP are both frozen so there is no benifit to being caught and staying in jail.
- if an 'outlaw' enters into an alliance town, the random chance of a run-in with the law is cut in half. (ex -120 rep = only a 6% chance of an encounter)

7th - Range of people you can duel would be 1/10th your current level down, with no cap on the top side. (ex. lvl 20 player could duel player lvl 18 - 150, lvl 100 player could duel lvl 90 - 150)

NOTE - NPC duels do not affect this. And your duel Reputation is only effected by duels you initiate.


Abuse Prevention
only abuse I can see is if a high or low Reputation player as a defender, loses on purpose...

Visual Aids
-sorry non

Summary
What does this gain us??

it gains for every type of player, (except those who pray on the innocent, the outlaws, lol)

1st - the worker, soldier, adventurer, those not focused on dueling and would rather go about their every day lives without crossing paths with those out for quick cash...
2nd - those who want to be known as the law or a seeking the reputation as the best Gun of the West
3rd - well, I guess even the outlaw can seek a status of 'the worst of the worst'

How does it all come together?

1st - if your not wanting to duel, and you lose when dueled, your dueling record will be negative. Dueling you will lower ones Dueling Reputation, increasing the odds that person may be targeted as an outlaw (beating an outlaw gains an increase in cash gained).
2nd - if you are the 'law" with a great rep, you have something to brag about and more bonds in your pockets
3rd - Outlaws (those with a negative Dueling Reputation) could become targets as they could be an easy win since they focus on the innocent and will have harder times as they travel from town to town.

This proposal does not effect the defenders 'Dueling Reputation' as they are not the instigator of the fight, your Reputation is only effected on fights you start.

Also if you lose, your Reputation is not effected, this is to encourage duelers to try and beat those with a better Reputation and record then them.

I am not sure how this is complex...
if you want a good Duel Reputation, you look for people with a positive win/lose ratio... this could be players with a good or a bad Reputation.... you attack and if you win, you gain bonds based on the defenders Reputation.... then end of week, with an increase in Reputation, or your rank in world Duel Reputation, gain more bonds.
if you don't care about your Duel Reputation, duel as you are now, who ever you want, just know, your Reputation may begin to fall and the more it falls, the more of a target you could become... and the harder it will be for you to travel to other towns without an encounter.
 
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JohnnyReb863

I do not like this idea as Duelers would have to travel around a lot more to find people with positive reputation or else you would be seen as a "Coward" for dueling "Defenseless Players" I am a low motivation dueler on W12. (my Duel motivation is low but i still have a duel level 13 levels higher then my normal level) I'm sure i duel people who don't have a positive duel record but at level 68 i Duel players around levels 90-100. granted they usually don't have on the best duel clothing for their level but with golden colts/sabres and a 20-30 level advantage on me i wouldn't consider them defenseless even though they may not have a positive duel record this would paint me as a outlaw who prays on the innocent? That is why I do not like this idea.