Abortion

[DeletedUser]

Abortion, this to most people for or against the issue is a matter of what they regard as morally right and wrong. The problem is that what you regard as right and wrong depends directly on your beliefs. Therefore to ban abortion based on those beliefs is to impose your belief system on the person seeking the abortion. By definition the person seeking the abortion believes it is the right thing for them to do (or they would not be seeking to do it)
The the question of abortion is therefore also a question of the right to impose your beliefs on others who do not adhere to them.
If you believe it is right and proper to impose your beliefs on others then you are only one step away from having a Taliban equivalent running your country. Effectively it does not matter which group is imposing it's belief structure on everyone else Fundamentalist Islam, Fundamentalist Christian, Maoist communist, Khmer Rouge, Nazi fascist, once you impose your belief system on others in areas which are not commonly agreed you have put a knife in the heart of personal freedom. Where next hanging gays because it is against "gods law"? how about burning heretics? (It is after all for the good of their immortal soul) where do you stop?

 

[DeletedUser]

Well, about 'physically able to survive on its own' - to be frank, a baby can't live outside care for long. and until its born, it is still a parasite, isn't it - still requires nutrients and gaseous exchange from the mother to develop. if that's how you define it, why bother setting a 'mature' date at all >.<

Learn the difference between physical and mental. A baby born after the viable date is, as I stated physically able to survive.

Definition of a Parasite: An organism that lives in or on and takes its nourishment from another organism. A parasite cannot live independently
Source

See the key point there is that a parasite cannot live independantly. A fetus once vialbe can survive independantly which is why abortions are not carried out after the viable date unless to continue the pregnancy would carry extremely high risks for the mother either during pregnancy or childbirth.

It should be considered life because in due time it WILL develop into an individual, whereas other cell divisions can only result in gametes or daughter cells, but never an INDIVIDUAL. That's why it's different ^^

MAY develop into an individual. There is no guarentee that the fetus will survive therefore the expression is may.

Therefore sperm and eggs are also included in this as given the right conditions they also MAY develop into a human.

 

[DeletedUser]

Nazi fascist,

you used the nazis to support a point that means you lose [godwins rule]
surely all laws are based on someones belief of whats right

 

[DeletedUser]

The whole issue if abortion should be legalized boils down to a persons freedom. If abortion is outlawed then you are giving up your freedom and taking away someone else's. If you think abortion is wrong, thats fine, don't get an abortion. If it is legalized, your not forced to participate, its just giving people the option. Think of it this way, you can get a concealed weapons permit in pretty much every state here in America, does every one who is able carry a gun here? no, but you have the option. Now I can see where people say every child has the right to life, but its really up to a doctor to define when a fetus begins its life.

 

[DeletedUser]

you used the nazis to support a point that means you lose [godwins rule]
surely all laws are based on someones belief of whats right

I don't adhere to godwins rule. That is part of your belief system not mine

All laws are indeed based on someones belief system, the point here is that where you impose laws which are not universally agreed upon, or at least agreed upon by a very large majority of the population you lose freedom.

If 40% of the population believed that polygamy was acceptable and 60% were against it then the law against polygamy should be overturned. Why? because the 60% are under no obligation to practice polygamy and the fact that the other 40% practice it has no direct impact on them. Equally if the practice of abortion by the 40% has no direct impact on the 60% who believe it is wrong then the 60% should not interfere. You may not like abortion but you are under no obligation to take any part in the process.

 

[DeletedUser]

were all off topic right now ( I know I started it). A major reason abortion is contested over is because of religious beliefs. How many people in this very forum are against abortion because of religious ideals? (you don't have to raise your hand or anything) Now its fine to be against abortion for those reasons, but when those ideas seep into government, we get a theocracy. The way the founding fathers saw it was separation of church and state, and you should see it that way to, it's up to doctors who use their years of college learn'n to decide when a child actually becomes a child. So unless your a doctor you should be contesting over when life begins.

 

[DeletedUser]

Yes, there are religious beliefs involved. However, simple "common" values would find abortion unethical.

After all,
"Thou shalt not kill" may be Christian, but most atheists would agree.

 

[DeletedUser]

Yes, there are religious beliefs involved. However, simple "common" values would find abortion unethical.

After all,
"Thou shalt not kill" may be Christian, but most atheists would agree.

but are they actually killing someone? The fetus might not even havedeveloped higher brain functions, does it have a "soul"?

 

[DeletedUser]

but are they actually killing someone? The foetus might not even haved developed higher brain functions, does it have a "soul"?

Might is the wrong word, the foetus would have not developed cogitative abilities let alone a form of memory all you would be is a biomechanical machine without thought's or feelings, in any case what is pain with no memory of it? nothing.

simple question you all:
Do you remember your first year of your life? if you answer "yes" you are a frigging liar

in the first years of you life all/any reactions that are produced is pure instinct that is produced in order to have some form of communication with mother for survival

The case "should it be legal or not" SHOULD NOT be dictated by religious reasons neither human "ethics"

 

[DeletedUser14029]

a baby's digestive system is still not well-developed when he/she is born. breast milk has enzymes to help digest food, rich in nutrients and has antibodies etc. not to mention EXTREMELY tender, a slight knock to the skull can cause permanent damage, or can't even maintain constant health/body temperature without extra care

so it's kind of difficult to convince people a baby is at any rate okay to survive on his/her own. while born, he/she has all the SYSTEMS of organs to function properly, yes, but it's kinda... too much to say it's really PHYSICALLY able to survive on his/her own >.<

Maybe I should say a sperm & egg combined 'Zygote' has a HUGE chance of becoming human if it can land in the uterine lining and a placenta is formed around it . . . Don't you think so?

 

[DeletedUser]

Might is the wrong word, the foetus would have not developed cogitative abilities let alone a form of memory all you would be is a biomechanical machine without thought's or feelings, in any case what is pain with no memory of it? nothing.

simple question you all:
Do you remember your first year of your life? if you answer "yes" you are a frigging liar

in the first years of you life all/any reactions that are produced is pure instinct that is produced in order to have some form of communication with mother for survival

The case "should it be legal or not" SHOULD NOT be dictated by religious reasons neither human "ethics"

what is a foetus? and why does my quote in that post say the same thing? I totally agree with you, I'm not a doctor, so I don't know when life starts, and neither do politicians, religious leaders, or the average person (unless they were doctors before)

 

[DeletedUser]

wtfu&k is a foetus? and why does my quote in that post say the same thing? I totally agree with you, I'm not a doctor, so I don't know when life starts, and neither do politicians, religious leaders, or the average person (unless they were doctors before)

foetus is same as fetus but in a different spelling (color, colour argument)
and the rest I don't really know as I was in a delirious state

 

[DeletedUser]

but are they actually killing someone? The fetus might not even havedeveloped higher brain functions, does it have a "soul"?

So? Does that make a toddler inferior to a full-grown adult? A senile person inferior to one with a fully-functioning mind? A "dumb" person to a "smart" one?

 

[DeletedUser]

So? Does that make a toddler inferior to a full-grown adult? A senile person inferior to one with a fully-functioning mind? A "dumb" person to a "smart" one?

I said higher brain functions, like learning, communication (babies cry) that kinda stuff

 

[DeletedUser]

It still doesn't change the fact that it is human.

 

[DeletedUser]

It still doesn't change the fact that it is human.

what makes a person? if you go by genetics, then a tumor could be considered human. have you seen those people with parasitic twins (look it up)? do you think they shouldn't be separated because the under developed twin will die, even though if not separated both die? There are pregnancies that share a similar situation, where if the woman carries the child she puts herself at a health risk, resulting in possible death for both. Do you think they shouldn't have abortions?

 

[DeletedUser]

Dang it, if you looked back at the very FIRST FEW PAGES you would see what my opinions on abortion in different situations are. Now, if you really care, go ahead and do that.

 

[DeletedUser]

Dang it, if you looked back at the very FIRST FEW PAGES you would see what my opinions on abortion in different situations are. Now, if you really care, go ahead and do that.

there is 16 pages, i cant read through all of that! its impossible

 

[DeletedUser]

It's okay. Just look at Page 2. I found it myself.

Basically, I support abortion in all cases except where the baby has a detrimental mental disease (ADHD and Autism don't count) or where the mother's life is threatened.

Also, I apologize for "raising my voice". I was just annoyed that I had to restate the same information I had already given.

 

[DeletedUser]

It's okay. Just look at Page 2. I found it myself.

Basically, I support abortion in all cases except where the baby has a detrimental mental disease (ADHD and Autism don't count) or where the mother's life is threatened.

Also, I apologize for "raising my voice". I was just annoyed that I had to restate the same information I had already given.

then what are you arguing with me for? we share common ground.