17yo Florida Teen Dies From Covid-19? I think not.

Tucker Blue

Well-Known Member
Some people are ready for this information. Some aren't. In some, the programming is just too deep. Some believe "My doctor tells me everything I need to know."

I'll keep this short. First, read the story. MSN article

What killed her was a lifetime of immune system attacks that weakened it to the state it was in at the time of her death. What killed her? Her parents. From jamming their and her bodies full of poison and cancer for a few decades before and after her birth. Alcohol = poison. Red meat/Swine meat = Neu5Gc cancer sugar. Glyphosate = everything else too. Let's throw in Dairy as a very close 4th worst. With a frosting of pill mixing on top. She trusted them to do what was best for her, they failed.

Humans are not randomly selected by nature to receive disease. If you get disease it's because either you or your parents did a whack of stupid, unhealthy stuff to their bodies and induced it. Refer to first sentence. Hell, I even made threads about how alcohol causes cancer a while ago Here and also linked the article I wrote on how glyphosate causes disease above.

The Covid Flu was just what finally pushed her body past the point it couldn't handle the immune system attacks anymore.

You are what you eat. Does that little phrase click now?
 
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Poker Alice

Well-Known Member
In the you tube video Waitress Tara Jane Langston a 39-year-old Covid-19 patient speaking from an intensive care bed, warned others “not to take any chances”. She was described by her husband Richard as a healthy, gym-going non-smoker.
 

Apelatia

Well-Known Member
That was an interesting read, Tucker - yet another sad story among many that have come out of this pandemic.

I'd like to offer some thoughts on some of the points you've raised. It's probably worth my saying that I am currently employed as a doctor, so I have some experience dealing with the issues you've raised here. I disagree with the 'my doctor tells me everything I need to know' statement. There is a whole world of information that those in the medical profession do not yet know. Advice given to patients is usually based on what we do know at present.

Firstly, the 'you are what you eat'. This is starting to become more and more recognised in medicine today. There is a lot of research going on into diseases such as bowel cancer, diabetes, cardiovascular disease etc. that are really emphasising this theme of diet. Research into our gut microbiome (the composition of bugs in your gut), which is intrinsically linked with the foods we eat is also starting to pick up. So, I wholeheartedly agree with you on that point.

What I disagree with though is your argument which seems to fully slant towards the 'nurture' side of the nature vs nurture debate that often takes place in the science world. The article you linked refers to a 'rare autoimmune disease' which the girl here had. I did a quick search to find out what the disease is and it is apparently called 'opsoclonus-myoclonus syndrome'. Being a rare syndrome, I know nothing about the specifics of it, so I've done a quick read up about it. While it's not an inherited condition, the syndrome apparently typically comes on after exposure to any of a long list of viruses, as a secondary development from a dangerous tumour or alternatively has no obvious, known cause. Some of the viruses listed as potential causes are influenza, Epstein-Barr, Coxsackie-B virus, all of which are viruses which you and I will likely have come into contact with over the course of our lives. To say then that every disease we as humans have is a direct consequence of something 'unhealthy' or 'stupid' that we or our parents have done is incorrect. This is a fine example of that.

If it were the case that every disease is a direct result of an unhealthy or stupid action taken, then how would you go about explaining genetically inherited conditions such as Huntingdon's Disease (for example)? We know too little about the development genetic mutations to be able to make statements such as the ones you have made above.

I think some of the points you make are more than valid, Tucker. Yes, alcohol can cause cancer. Yes, that girl's parents probably did the wrong thing by giving her Hydroxychloroquine. However, to make bold, 'this is why this happened' statements without considering both that there is likely a lot we don't know about this case and equally that there are many elements at play here (namely her rare autoimmune condition) which could have predisposed her to a worse outcome is in my mind shortsighted. These elements are nothing to do with the way her parents raised her.

My feeling is that there are a mixture of factors involved here that led to this girl's death. There are the 'nurture' elements such as her diet, the drug given to her, etc. that very much played a part with her body's capability to deal with the disease process. However, there are just as many 'nature' elements to this, her autoimmune condition moreso than anything, but also her genetic makeup that are very much in play.

There is too much here that we don't know to be able to make sweeping statements. These are my thoughts.
 

asdf124

Well-Known Member
That was an interesting read, Tucker - yet another sad story among many that have come out of this pandemic.

I'd like to offer some thoughts on some of the points you've raised. It's probably worth my saying that I am currently employed as a doctor, so I have some experience dealing with the issues you've raised here. I disagree with the 'my doctor tells me everything I need to know' statement. There is a whole world of information that those in the medical profession do not yet know. Advice given to patients is usually based on what we do know at present.
That's not always true Apel, sometimes doctors can be swayed by greed and other means. Pharma's have been caught bribing doctors to simply make sure their products get to the customers, like what happened in Ohio, USA. Eventually, the state decided to press legal action against a pharmaceutical company.
Research into our gut microbiome (the composition of bugs in your gut), which is intrinsically linked with the foods we eat is also starting to pick up. So, I wholeheartedly agree with you on that point.
I thought it was gut bacteria and how eating gets other kinds of bacteria. So, the nutrients we actually get depends on the kinds of bacteria we have in our guts. Having a balanced and a very wide range of healthy. This includes fish, red meat and chicken. A mostly vege meal with some meat seems better in my opinion(not scientifically speaking, since I would have to make a research about it.)

You also forgot that sleeping patterns could be also a big thing for the immune system, so why do we still have night shifts? Since basically we aren't really made to be night owls. Their is a specific kind of hormone that is only secreted when you are asleep at night.

If you work at nights, why aren't you compensated properly? Will there be any research about it, is it possible if its linked to dementia or related problems?

Research is not going to be fast, and we won't find the answers to everything overnight. Doctors aren't people that know everything nor they can just flick their fingers and the problem would be solved. Or rather, the disease be cured. Sometimes it takes trial and error and sometimes people who aren't really doctors pretend to be one.

I ain't a doctor so I don't really know all the answers either. Remember, everyone is a human, and never think humans know everything.

What I do know is more about computers, and computers were made kinda like how the brain works fundamentally not realistically. So in my opinion, sleeping is how we cool down our huge brains(cpu). But it feels like more of a complete package for the human brain being a full computer.
 
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Apelatia

Well-Known Member
That's not always true Apel, sometimes doctors can be swayed by greed and other means. Pharma's have been caught bribing doctors to simply make sure their products get to the customers, like what happened in Ohio, USA. Eventually, the state decided to press legal action against a pharmaceutical company.
I didn't say that it was always true. Note my use of the word, 'usually'. As you say, there are of course many doctors out there who practice medicine purely for monetary gain, and there are also people who are both consciously and unconsciously under the influence of the pharmaceutical companies. It's kind of funny actually. Most doctors in the world have to take something called the Hippocratic Oath when they qualify, with the 'do no harm' clause being at the centre of the oath. How many doctors, at the end of the career, can stand up and say that every decision they took in their career was both in the best interests of and did no harm to their patients? I'd say a very small number would stand up, and of them, the majority would be kidding themselves.

I thought it was gut bacteria and how eating gets other kinds of bacteria. So, the nutrients we actually get depends on the kinds of bacteria we have in our guts. Having a balanced and a very wide range of healthy. This includes fish, red meat and chicken. A mostly vege meal with some meat seems better in my opinion(not scientifically speaking, since I would have to make a research about it.)
Yes, this is what I said. Your gut microbiome is made up mostly of bacteria. The evidence that's out there right now suggests that as a child, the greater the variety of different foods you are exposed to, later on as an adult the 'healthier' your gut will be. There's a lot that isn't known about the field though. That's why it's an exciting area of research at the moment.

You also forgot that sleeping patterns could be also a big thing for the immune system, so why do we still have night shifts? Since basically we aren't really made to be night owls. Their is a specific kind of hormone that is only secreted when you are asleep at night.

If you work at nights, why aren't you compensated properly? Will there be any research about it, is it possible if its linked to dementia or related problems?
I wish I didn't have to work nights. If you can find a way to take them away from me, I'd be very grateful to you. :p
On a serious note though, I don't know what it's like in the US and other countries, but here in the UK the general rule is that you are paid slightly more per hour for working at night compared to working a standard 9 - 5 day. This is true for me, and others I know who work at night, whether that be in a supermarket or in a factory.

No one doubts the importance of sleeping well when discussing ways to live a healthier life. It just wasn't a particularly relevant point to my above post.

Research is not going to be fast, and we won't find the answers to everything overnight. Doctors aren't people that know everything nor they can just flick their fingers and the problem would be solved. Or rather, the disease be cured. Sometimes it takes trial and error and sometimes people who aren't really doctors pretend to be one.
Amen. Though, I would say that Tucker's original post was about the girl's parents being 100% responsible for their daughter's death. Do you have anything to say about that?
 

asdf124

Well-Known Member
Amen. Though, I would say that Tucker's original post was about the girl's parents being 100% responsible for their daughter's death. Do you have anything to say about that?
I wasn’t arguing, just fact checking and also kinda collaborating with your point as doctors are humans.

My thought would be simple, I’d have to know her parents from when they were young till they are at the point with their decision, and I’d have to know each step of their lives to judge if they were responsible.
The real problem in my opinion is misinformation in the USA, and too many Americans believing what lies in the internet.
I believe their was a rumor that Trump was using the drug they used.
 

Pankreas PorFavor

Well-Known Member
My thought would be simple, I’d have to know her parents from when they were young till they are at the point with their decision, and I’d have to know each step of their lives to judge if they were responsible.
each step of their lives? that's a bit exaggerated, don't you think? were her parents responsible for exposing their immuno-compromised child to a crowd at the church gathering during a pandemic? did they ignore her symptoms for a week before taking her to a hospital? or was it someone else's decision?
for example, does it really matter what kind of education (if any) they chose after high school, what job and career choices they made, or what kind of cake was served at their wedding? "each step of their lives"? I think that in this day and age too many people are looking for excuses and refusing responsibility for their actions. "I didn't know" - ignorance is not the same as innocence.
of course, we don't know all the details and circumstances and it would be wrong to judge based on just one article. I am not claiming that they're the only people responsible for what happened, but I think that "each step of their lives" is taking it a bit too far.
 

Apelatia

Well-Known Member
I wasn’t arguing, just fact checking and also kinda collaborating with your point as doctors are humans.

My thought would be simple, I’d have to know her parents from when they were young till they are at the point with their decision, and I’d have to know each step of their lives to judge if they were responsible.
The real problem in my opinion is misinformation in the USA, and too many Americans believing what lies in the internet.
I believe their was a rumor that Trump was using the drug they used.
If this were how the court of law dealt with every case that was brought before them, then one can imagine that no one would get charged for any sort of crime. As Pankreas has said, knowing 'every step of their lives' is a bit over-the-top and is irrelevant to this situation. Knowing how old they were when they learned to ride a bike for example - I don't think we need to know that to make a judgement related to this case. Of course, I'm being a bit facetious here, but it serves to prove a point.

The relevant points here that anyone making any sort of investigation into this case would have to consider are all related to the run-up to, as well as to her stay in hospital itself. Whether steps could have been taken by her parents to prevent her from catching Covid-19 in the first place or whether better decisions could have been taken by the medical staff involved in her care would be the most important aspects to consider in my opinion.
 

Poker Alice

Well-Known Member
If this were how the court of law dealt with every case that was brought before them, then one can imagine that no one would get charged for any sort of crime.
What is the crime? Murder would depend on intent. Could the motive be a life insurance policy? Parents have been known to murder their children but is that not usually the result of a mental disorder? Then you have family law focusing on neglect and because she was 17 years old having the state take control of the parenting decisions is a little late. Besides most parents are human too and do make mistakes. The loss of a child is painful enough without having charges laid. What advantage would there be in prosecution.

Perhaps the reason for making judgement's in general and in this case the parents of a dead child revolves around current world events. People don't want this virus. It makes them angry that this is happening. They want to assess blame on something or someone. It is just so difficult to accept. The virus has seemed to have also effected human compassion?
 

asdf124

Well-Known Member
each step of their lives? that's a bit exaggerated, don't you think? were her parents responsible for exposing their immuno-compromised child to a crowd at the church gathering during a pandemic? did they ignore her symptoms for a week before taking her to a hospital? or was it someone else's decision?
for example, does it really matter what kind of education (if any) they chose after high school, what job and career choices they made, or what kind of cake was served at their wedding? "each step of their lives"? I think that in this day and age too many people are looking for excuses and refusing responsibility for their actions. "I didn't know" - ignorance is not the same as innocence.
of course, we don't know all the details and circumstances and it would be wrong to judge based on just one article. I am not claiming that they're the only people responsible for what happened, but I think that "each step of their lives" is taking it a bit too far.
For people to judge another we should know each step is what I meant, lets say you were in their position, but brainwashed by your ideals, church and any other non scientific reasoning one might have. You are most likely to make the same mistake. Misinformation was also one of the things, just imagine your hero(I would imagine they'd vote for Trump which is circumstantial since its just most likely). Had taken the same drug, I would imagine them thinking "Oh, the president my hero took it, it must work wonders! Goes to the store, ignoring scientific evidence and buys the same drug!". Did I not mention their was a case of pharmaceutical companies paying doctors in Ohio?

And that's where they would ignore doctors recommendation due to mistrust. The USA has a big health problem. I would verdict the death penalty or even indefinite jail time with forced labor on any doctors misusing their medical expertise for greed.

What is the crime? Murder would depend on intent. Could the motive be a life insurance policy? Parents have been known to murder their children but is that not usually the result of a mental disorder? Then you have family law focusing on neglect and because she was 17 years old having the state take control of the parenting decisions is a little late. Besides most parents are human too and do make mistakes. The loss of a child is painful enough without having charges laid. What advantage would there be in prosecution.

Perhaps the reason for making judgement's in general and in this case the parents of a dead child revolves around current world events. People don't want this virus. It makes them angry that this is happening. They want to assess blame on something or someone. It is just so difficult to accept. The virus has seemed to have also effected human compassion?
Some people are just bad at adapting, you gotta also expect that people didn't withhold any rent payments. So their is more at it and its rather weird to see people not really cooperating with each other.

Some people here who are landlords decided to withhold on rents, I wish it was the same and it would be an international law if curfews, and other aspects were implemented.

One of the things that good came out of the virus was less air pollution, as less people are commuting.
 

Pankreas PorFavor

Well-Known Member
For people to judge another we should know each step is what I meant,
I don't know what you mean by "judge another". if it is about determining responsibility (which is what I mean), then I disagree with you, and I think knowing "each step in their lives" is not important. in this case - who else should be responsible for a child than the parents?
if this was a trial, then yes, more should be understood about what lead to this outcome. were they "brainwashed" as you said or something else - these are the kind of things that courts take into account when they determine the punishment. laws usually define sentences between X and Y years in jail for a particular crime, and the court determines if it should be closer to X or Y based on different circumstances.

You are most likely to make the same mistake.
ignorance and innocence are not synonyms.
 

asdf124

Well-Known Member
I don't know what you mean by "judge another". if it is about determining responsibility (which is what I mean), then I disagree with you, and I think knowing "each step in their lives" is not important. in this case - who else should be responsible for a child than the parents?
if this was a trial, then yes, more should be understood about what lead to this outcome. were they "brainwashed" as you said or something else - these are the kind of things that courts take into account when they determine the punishment. laws usually define sentences between X and Y years in jail for a particular crime, and the court determines if it should be closer to X or Y based on different circumstances.



ignorance and innocence are not synonyms.
I agree that I have no sympathy for the parents for basically endangerment and negligence. But sometimes it isn't as clear as day.

Psychopaths aren't usually just born, they are usually made. So, should we also punish the people who were the parents of psychopaths? What if they accidentally made them? What if they never had to anything do with what they become?
 

Pankreas PorFavor

Well-Known Member
Psychopaths aren't usually just born, they are usually made. So, should we also punish the people who were the parents of psychopaths? What if they accidentally made them? What if they never had to anything do with what they become?
punishment is deserved mainly based on their actions, not just what the outcome is. the outcome has an influence on the severity of the punishment.
did the child become a psychopath because it was molested by the parent(s)? then they should be punished for that, even if the child grew up to be a normal, functioning human being. if they had nothing to do with the outcome - I believe the answer is obvious.
in a traffic accident with fatal outcome the driver is not punished because someone got killed. if they obeyed all the rules, they did all they could and aren't guilty for the outcome. a drunk driver who is speeding - that's a different story. they'll get punished even if they got caught during a routine check and there was no accident.
 

Bardoon

Member
It is not allowed under game rules to endanger others. This OP clearly shows a willingness to endanger others. I am sick of seeing it on the forums.
 
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Poker Alice

Well-Known Member
It is not allowed under game rules to endanger others. This OP clearly shows a willingness to endanger others. I am sick of seeing it on the forums.
Your request for deletion might hold more weight if it were to specify where specifically endangerment to others applies in the thread?
Who said what?

This topic came about from the tragic death of Carsyn Leigh Davis.


" Blame the church. You don’t hold a party in a pandemic.
Blame the parents. They failed their daughter.
But you must also blame the forces of conspiracy and confusion that invite people to ignore medical science and common sense.
Blame Tucker Carlson, Rush Limbaugh and every other loudmouth peddling alternatives to reality and forgeries of fact.
Blame President Trump, Roger Stone and every other political hack who thrives on the gullibility of the ill-informed.
Blame social media for allowing dangerous propaganda to be spread anonymously and globally with no accountability."

above is from an article written by LEONARD PITTS JR. for the Baltimore Sun July 13, 2020 and was classified as opinion . In the article he suggests there is a lot of blame to go around ...


Before deleting anything however consider that deletion can also endanger? The endangerment being if people are not allowed to write anything on a touchy subject, freedom of expression is squashed and then the only thing left is a bias viewpoint or is that right?
 

Bardoon

Member
OMG
Your request for deletion might hold more weight if it were to specify where specifically endangerment to others applies in the thread?
Who said what?

This topic came about from the tragic death of Carsyn Leigh Davis.


" Blame the church. You don’t hold a party in a pandemic.
Blame the parents. They failed their daughter.
But you must also blame the forces of conspiracy and confusion that invite people to ignore medical science and common sense.
Blame Tucker Carlson, Rush Limbaugh and every other loudmouth peddling alternatives to reality and forgeries of fact.
Blame President Trump, Roger Stone and every other political hack who thrives on the gullibility of the ill-informed.
Blame social media for allowing dangerous propaganda to be spread anonymously and globally with no accountability."

above is from an article written by LEONARD PITTS JR. for the Baltimore Sun July 13, 2020 and was classified as opinion . In the article he suggests there is a lot of blame to go around ...


Before deleting anything however consider that deletion can also endanger? The endangerment being if people are not allowed to write anything on a touchy subject, freedom of expression is squashed and then the only thing left is a bias viewpoint or is that right?
OMG. Who cares! hundreds of thousands are dead around the world. Millions are without work and food. Many are made homeless and you let this player blame:

QUOTE
--" What killed her? Her parents. From jamming their and her bodies full of poison and cancer for a few decades before and after her birth. Alcohol = poison. Red meat/Swine meat."--
END QUOTE

He blames food. He blames Mom and Dad! There by implying that the virus is not the danger and we should just forget about it and focus on barbeque and chruch.
I am ashamed to even have this conversation.
The moderator should be ashamed.
Her death is real as is hundreds of thousand of others and millions of people who suffer.
 
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Bardoon

Member
We can have a constructive conversation about this. Let not start with Mom and Dad killed her. They are grieving at the loss of their child.
Lets not blame barbeque lets talk about how we can have a barbeque safely.
Lets not blame the Church lets........
IDK.
Just let us not do it under the free speech of an idiot. IMOP