1 hour or 2 hours?

[DeletedUser]

hi im adventurer level 19, and getting products working 2 hour shifts does not seem to be more beneficial than 1 hour, does anybody know if the 10% higher chance of finding prduct is added to the job or to a set time, say 1 hour, in this case i would switch to 30min / i hour shifts

 

[DeletedUser8269]

all chances are related to 30mins jobs.
if you do 1 hour, chances of finding a product are twice as high
if you do 2 hours, chances of finding a product are 4 times as high.

thats all to it, no tricks.

 

[DeletedUser]

it does'nt state 30 mins in character class advantages though, which leads me to believe its added to each job, thus making shorter shifts more profitable, i was hoping someone could confirm my theory

 

[DeletedUser8269]

example: chance of finding a product : 50%

4 jobs of each 30mins, with 10% bonus over 50% = 4 x (50+5) = 220
1 job of 2 hours with 10% bonus over (4x50%) = 200 + 20 = 220.

Its all the same really.

The only difference you theoretically have is with luck-items (no products). In every job you can get a maximum of 1 luck item so :
- With a 2 hour job you can get 1 luck-item;
- With 4 jobs of 30mins each on every job the chance of a luck-item is 1/4th of the chance of getting a luck-item on a 2-hour job but in theory you could get 4 luck-items in 2 hours since you're doing 4 jobs.
Even better, in 2 hours you could theoretically find 12 luck-items if you do 12 jobs of 10 minutes each........

 

[DeletedUser]

the 10% is not added though, know that. for the union flag, the find rate is 2%, and with adventurer bonus, its 2.2%. its adding 10% more of what you already have, not adding 10%.

also, all product finds are based on 30min jobs. it does not need to specify since the percentage for the find rate that is given is applied to each 30min. of a job. so for the flag, you have a 2% chance of finding the flag in 30min. the next 30min, you have the same chances. with the adventurer bonus, all that changes is the 2%, which becomes 2.2%

 

[DeletedUser]

thanks kman that makes perfect sense to me now and 2.2% sucks h34r:

 

[DeletedUser]

yes, it does, but thats just because 2% is much smaller. the 10% bonus of adventurers is most useful in the 10%-25% range, since getting products in this range isn't always the easiest thing.

 

[DeletedUser]

But what about luck items? In practise, what have you found? Do you get better items with 2 sessions of 1h (assuming 100% motivation on both), or one of 2h?

 

[DeletedUser]

example: chance of finding a product : 50%

4 jobs of each 30mins, with 10% bonus over 50% = 4 x (50+5) = 220
1 job of 2 hours with 10% bonus over (4x50%) = 200 + 20 = 220.

Its all the same really.

The only difference you theoretically have is with luck-items (no products). In every job you can get a maximum of 1 luck item so :
- With a 2 hour job you can get 1 luck-item;
- With 4 jobs of 30mins each on every job the chance of a luck-item is 1/4th of the chance of getting a luck-item on a 2-hour job but in theory you could get 4 luck-items in 2 hours since you're doing 4 jobs.
Even better, in 2 hours you could theoretically find 12 luck-items if you do 12 jobs of 10 minutes each........

i thought probablity of finding product was always constant regardless of 30min or 2h...


and as for finding 12 items....i havent seen anyone till now obtaining 2 items in a shift of job....all i see is 1 item and other products...so this 12 item theory is way too much for me to believe

 

[nashy19]

The only thing shorter periods are good for is the extra xp/cash you would get from the higher motivation.

 

[DeletedUser]

i havent seen anyone till now obtaining 2 items in a shift of job

It's been claimed several times, and yet strangely no one at the time ever thought the event was unusual enough for a screen shot for proof.

Screen shot or it didn't happen.

 

[DeletedUser]

example: chance of finding a product : 50%

4 jobs of each 30mins, with 10% bonus over 50% = 4 x (50+5) = 220
1 job of 2 hours with 10% bonus over (4x50%) = 200 + 20 = 220.

Its all the same really.

The only difference you theoretically have is with luck-items (no products). In every job you can get a maximum of 1 luck item so :
- With a 2 hour job you can get 1 luck-item;
- With 4 jobs of 30mins each on every job the chance of a luck-item is 1/4th of the chance of getting a luck-item on a 2-hour job but in theory you could get 4 luck-items in 2 hours since you're doing 4 jobs.
Even better, in 2 hours you could theoretically find 12 luck-items if you do 12 jobs of 10 minutes each........

when dealing with probabilities, you should take care that they don't add up, but rather influence themselves in a progressive way.
that is if you have one event with 50% probability, if you do 2 times you will not have 100% probability. You will only have 75% probability. And if you wanna feel better about it, you will never ever ever have 100% probabilities, no matter how many times you try.

For mathematical reason, the probability P to have an event E with p probability after n tries is:

P = 1 - (1-p)^n,
where ^n means raising at power n

that means you can have event E happen 1, 2, 3 or more times, but the probability to have it happen at least once is the above one.

for your case, 2 hours means 4 intervals, you have:

P = 1 - (1-0.5)^4 = 87.5%

and we assumed that you don't let your motivation get low since the motivation diminishes your chances to get the product.

 

[DeletedUser]

The only thing shorter periods are good for is the extra xp/cash you would get from the higher motivation.

About motivation being calculated when a job ends (impossible to have 100% motivaion doing a job):

What is the source? I have heard it all over the board but have never seen a source. Was this said by a dev? Otherwise, how was it proven that the amount of motivation that counts is the one you get after finishing the job and not when you start it?

 

[DeletedUser]

when dealing with probabilities, you should take care that they don't add up, but rather influence themselves in a progressive way.
that is if you have one event with 50% probability, if you do 2 times you will not have 100% probability. You will only have 75% probability. And if you wanna feel better about it, you will never ever ever have 100% probabilities, no matter how many times you try.

For mathematical reason, the probability P to have an event E with p probability after n tries is:

P = 1 - (1-p)^n,
where ^n means raising at power n

that means you can have event E happen 1, 2, 3 or more times, but the probability to have it happen at least once is the above one.

for your case, 2 hours means 4 intervals, you have:

P = 1 - (1-0.5)^4 = 87.5%

and we assumed that you don't let your motivation get low since the motivation diminishes your chances to get the product.

heck you need to be a rocket scientist to play this game

 

[nashy19]

About motivation being calculated when a job ends (impossible to have 100% motivaion doing a job):

What is the source? I have heard it all over the board but have never seen a source. Was this said by a dev? Otherwise, how was it proven that the amount of motivation that counts is the one you get after finishing the job and not when you start it?

I can't go source searching at the moment.
However the simplest way to test it would be to do a job with 0 motivation continuously and observe the nonexistant cash/xp rise (as it is always calculated at 0%).

 

[DeletedUser]

About motivation being calculated when a job ends (impossible to have 100% motivaion doing a job):

What is the source? I have heard it all over the board but have never seen a source. Was this said by a dev? Otherwise, how was it proven that the amount of motivation that counts is the one you get after finishing the job and not when you start it?

I didn't saw the formula confirmed, but i did noticed this. If i try to do 2 shifts of 1 hour instead of 1 shift of 2 hours, i tend to get more xp (I say tend because you know that xp fluctuates even with the same labor points and same motivation, so you need to find an average value by summing up a lot of hours).
If the xp was calculated at the begging, i would have got:
1 hour at 100% and 1 hour at 97%.
and
2 hours at 100%
clearly the 2 hours shift would bring me more xp

If the xp was calculated at the end, i would have got:
1 hour at 97% and 1 hour at 94%.
and
2 hours at 94%
So i would get more xp from working 2 one-hour shifts. Which i noticed it happens.
So i tend to agree that motivation is computed at the end of the work

 

[DeletedUser8269]

i thought probablity of finding product was always constant regardless of 30min or 2h...


and as for finding 12 items....i havent seen anyone till now obtaining 2 items in a shift of job....all i see is 1 item and other products...so this 12 item theory is way too much for me to believe

Regarding Products:
All percentages are based on 30mins. If its a 20% chance, you have 20% chance of finding a product on a 30-min shift. When you do 2 hours, you have 4 times a chance of 20% (which doesnt equal 80% here)
Ofcourse its a bit more complicated since you can find more products in a 2-hour stint ofcourse, the right numbers are (at 20%)
- 0 products : 40.96%
- 1 product : 40.96%
- 2 products : 15.36%
- 3 products : 2.56%
- 4 products : 0.16%

Regarding Items:
You can not find 2 items in 1 shift or job, thats the point of my post.
If you do a 2-hours job you can find 1 item. If you do 12 10-minutes jobs (adding up to 2 hours too) you could theoretically find 12 items in a row. Chances are very small ofcourse but its possible.
(example: if the chance on a random item is 5%, the chance of that ever happening is 4.59e-20 or 0.0000000000000000000459% )

I usually do high-luck jobs in shifts of 30mins, and I did have 3 luck-items in a row on 3 30-mins jobs. When I would have done 1 2-hour stint, I would have had 1 at the most.

Gryph

ow and @thefbiman : I know how the probabilities work, it was just an example for the 10% bonus percentage

 

[DeletedUser8269]

heck you need to be a rocket scientist to play this game

Almost. Im an Aircraft Engineer, does that count too ? Rockets and Aircraft are very related........

 

[DeletedUser]

ow and @thefbiman : I know how the probabilities work, it was just an example for the 10% bonus percentage

well, now all is ok, and the guys are not going to sum them up anymore.
ps: IT Diplomat Engineer, does it count too? :laugh:

 

[nashy19]

Only rocket surgeons count, surely everyone knows that.