Proposed Character Class Advantage Changes

  • Thread starter DeletedUser39003
  • Start date

DeletedUser39003

Proposal
Dueler: replace "perception" with "In fort battles, your aiming skills are increased by 30%." & Adventurer: Replace advantage "Free hotel use" with "In fort battles, your hiding and setting traps skills are increased by 30%."

Details
Dueler: replace "perception" with "In fort battles, your aiming skills are increased by 30%." First, this is the actual skill of aiming, not changing hit chances like with workers class. The perception advantage is worthless in current gameplay. Allowing duelers to increase aiming skill while there being a rate of diminishing return due to the raising the total point by .5 would give the duelers a viable advantage to par with critical hits advantage. This also allows for variety of build among duelers as currently the only real viable build is high leadership with a garrett or amish set. This will allow duelers to opt to higher aim (thus making them better at actually duals) builds, and play the odds on getting crits, rather than being pigeon-holed into high leadership builds. Once again it also follows the theme of the dueler class.

Adventurer: Replace advantage "Free hotel use" with "In fort battles, your hiding and setting traps skills are increased by 30%." The purpose of this addition is to balance this class with other classes during Fort Battle. Although the ability to "ghost" is a viable advantage, over time the usefulness of this advantage has become significantly less effective. Presently, most alliances rank high damage duelers as captains while all other class are given rank of private. That leads to duelers shooting first at adventurers. The evolution of the game has lead to the ability for duelers to land 1000+ damage hits, without it being a critical hit. As a result adventures in most servers can be killed in 5-7 rounds even if they ghost. At the introduction of this advantage, adventurers could easily hold sectors for 10-13 rounds. So the degradation of this advantage is close to 50% over the last 9 years due to the introduction of tombola gear, increase in weapon strength, and sector damage bonuses. Implementing the suggested advantage change would:

A) increase the adventurers hit/dodge chances but at a rate of diminishing returns, which will set it apart from the workers hit/dodge chance bonus. Instead of a flat 20% hit/dodge increase, the player would receive a bonus of [(hiding*1.3)^.6] or [(setting traps*1.3)^.6]. So for instance, a level 150 adventurer wearing Francisco Pizarro Clothing and animal set and Jeremiah Johnson weapon set (due to resistance which will be explained later) and having AP/SP split to balance hiding and setting traps would result in 722 skills in both hiding and setting traps. Base do the hit/dodge formula, a normal rate would be [(722)^.6=51.8]; whereas my proposal would change it to [(722*1.3)^.6=60.74] or for premium [(722*1.6)^.6=68.6]. So the end result is a 17.8 hit/dodge chance increase in the most extreme case where the player would only have 1590 total health. In a normal instance were adventurers have high HP, it would allow them to increase there hit/dodge chances while wearing Hombre or Hernan gear that offer little to moderate hiding and setting traps.

B) increase the amount of resistance the adventurer has. using the extreme example above, that player would have the following resistence under each scenario: Now) [722*300/1590=136 resistence + 145 (Piz clothing/animal/JJ weapons) = 281 Resistance. Change [722*1.3*300/1590= 177 +145 = 322 Resistence]. Change with premium [722*1.6*300/1590= 218 +145 = 353 Resistence]. Once again this is an extreme example because the player would be limited to 1590 HP, and dueler would still be able to kill him in 4 hits. So this would not make that player invincible. This increase in resistance would not be significant for highly HP adventurers because the resistance formula already divides added resistance by total HP.

Lastly, this change would still fall within the theme of the "adventurer class." Hiding and setting traps is exactly what you'd expect an adventurer to due during a fort battle. Making this change would make the adventurer class a more viable class with a 2nd useable advantage under current gameplay.

Abuse Prevention
Don't see opportunities to abuse these proposed changes.

Summary
Same as proposal
 
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DeletedUser39003

for an updated example, a level 150 player with new John Adams clothing and animal set and hombre weapon, and all SP/AP in health would have 282 hiding and 297 setting traps. based on my proposal, hit/dodge chance based on hiding would increase from 29.52 base to 34.5 or to 39.14 with premium. For setting traps, it would increase from 30.45 base to 34.64 or to 40.37 with premium. Thus giving adventurer greater chances to hit/dodge but not to the extend of the worker class.

for resistence the afreomentioned set would result in [282*300/10930 = 8 resistence + 120 from gear = 128] the proposal would result in a nominal change of [282*1.3*300/10930= 10 resistence +120 = 130] or [282*1.6*300/10930= 12 +120 = 132]. so no oppirtunity for abuse.

so a modest boost for adventures, but it provides flexibilty for creating builds.
 

Deleted User - 3853873

I for one would be happy with the change because as a adventurer with high res already i still take a lot of hits and seams like no ghosting
 

Snr Sarg

Well-Known Member
So basically, in your opinion, character advantages should only be available to active fort fighters? And the rest of us?
 

asdf124

Well-Known Member
So basically, in your opinion, character advantages should only be available to active fort fighters? And the rest of us?
250$ is pocket change, if you were complaining about the adventurer side of it. Dueler advantage is useless if you don't duel. Not to mention, it is relatively easy to see if someone is "strong" or not.
 

revengi

Member
If your going to change Class advantage it should be across the board.
We aren't all Duelers or Adventurers.
If you don't duel, why did you chose Dueler Class?
 

DeletedUser26820

I'd vote in favor of it if it was put to a vote for serious consideration by Inno, but that's a different subject.
 

asdf124

Well-Known Member
If your going to change Class advantage it should be across the board.
We aren't all Duelers or Adventurers.
If you don't duel, why did you chose Dueler Class?
Even if you are a dueler, it is still useless feature as a glance on the opposition's gear is just as good.

Lots of reason to choose dueler class and not duel in the end.
 

DeletedUser38661

So basically, in your opinion, character advantages should only be available to active fort fighters? And the rest of us?

That is not his opinion at all? He gave us an idea for possible changes for those two classes in fort fighting and this is all this proposal is about.

About the Proposal:

I really like the idea for the changes of the adventurer class.

The changes of the dueler class on the other hand are a difficult topic. I think there is no way off giving them anything new for fort fighting without taking away something they already have, since they are already at a really good state right now. I also think that with the current formula used for the calculation of the attack value any improvements to hiding/setting traps/aiming would not change the best way of distributing you skill points at all (I'm talking about realistic changes off course).

The problem is that with the amount of points duelers get from the amish set the values of aiming/hiding/setting traps have reached numbers where any additional points make next to no difference. Even if you put all your skill points and attribute points on aiming/dexterity, the 30% changes would lead to an improvement of your attack value of about 10 if my estimations are right. I think good duelers run around with attack values of 140-160 right now. Those 10 do not matter at all if you take into account that your base damage drops about 40%.
 

DeletedUser39003

Why in the world does a dueler need more of an advantage in fort fights then they already have?

my proposal is to balance character classrs for purposes of Fort fights with the worker and soldier classes. Critical damage hits are definately a huge advanrage for duelers. but the current skill usage in battle results in dulers being all damage (leadership). i deally duellerhave linited options in the gave of either duelers purely a duelist or being purely a fort fighter. this is not the same for other classes as soldier and adventurers can ho heavy Strength and HP then use clothing to get vigor, dodge, aim, etc for dueling while still being premier fort fighters. Duelers doong the same thing basiaclly negates their critacl ability because it would reduce their hit chances so greatly they never land a shot compared to a soldier that gets leadership bonuses, a worker who get overal hit/dodge bonus, or an adventurer who under my proposal would recieve traps/hiding bonus. also look at all the advanrages. soldiers get huge health bost and leadership bost to increase dodge chance. workers get huge dodge chance boost. adventurer getting ghosting plus boosts from my proposal. Duellers inability to stay alove already required them to hide behind others class, placing then further from targets where the sostance significantly reduces hit chances. it would make since to counter balance that. itnwouldnalso likely brong more balance to an allianaces ability to actually defend a fort. but this is just a proposal based in my opinion.

sorry for bad grammer i types thisnon my phone.
 

DeletedUser39003

That is not his opinion at all? He gave us an idea for possible changes for those two classes in fort fighting and this is all this proposal is about.

About the Proposal:

I really like the idea for the changes of the adventurer class.

The changes of the dueler class on the other hand are a difficult topic. I think there is no way off giving them anything new for fort fighting without taking away something they already have, since they are already at a really good state right now. I also think that with the current formula used for the calculation of the attack value any improvements to hiding/setting traps/aiming would not change the best way of distributing you skill points at all (I'm talking about realistic changes off course).

The problem is that with the amount of points duelers get from the amish set the values of aiming/hiding/setting traps have reached numbers where any additional points make next to no difference. Even if you put all your skill points and attribute points on aiming/dexterity, the 30% changes would lead to an improvement of your attack value of about 10 if my estimations are right. I think good duelers run around with attack values of 140-160 right now. Those 10 do not matter at all if you take into account that your base damage drops about 40%.

Lucox, I tend to agree with you if your a pure fort foghte with all attributes in charisma and skills in leadership. this proposal is more for providing balance and the ability for duelers to duel and fort fight. if a dueller choose to primarily be a dueller, placing attributes in dex and mob or whatever. this change would also allow then to be viable fort fighters. Soldier class is capablenof fort fights and defending in duels (tactics advantage). Worker is capable of skilling for health and also construction. Adventurer is meant to find job (although American set basically renders adventurer bonusess no different that anyone elses) and can do so with many fort fight setups and gear. so shouldn’t a dueler have the oppurtunity to have a duel specific build, but then not be useless during fort fights?
 

DeletedUser38661

Lucox, I tend to agree with you if your a pure fort foghte with all attributes in charisma and skills in leadership. this proposal is more for providing balance and the ability for duelers to duel and fort fight. if a dueller choose to primarily be a dueller, placing attributes in dex and mob or whatever. this change would also allow then to be viable fort fighters. Soldier class is capablenof fort fights and defending in duels (tactics advantage). Worker is capable of skilling for health and also construction. Adventurer is meant to find job (although American set basically renders adventurer bonusess no different that anyone elses) and can do so with many fort fight setups and gear. so shouldn’t a dueler have the oppurtunity to have a duel specific build, but then not be useless during fort fights?

I think no fort fighting soldier has any AP on charisma, so the class ability does not play a role or offers her/him an advantage.

I think the game should exactly be about making a decision. You should be required to decide whether you want to be a dueller who focuses on fort fighting or on duelling. With the new sets it is already way too easy to do everything (but this is a whole different topic), so I think any further step only makes it worse.
 

asdf124

Well-Known Member
I think no fort fighting soldier has any AP on charisma, so the class ability does not play a role or offers her/him an advantage.

I think the game should exactly be about making a decision. You should be required to decide whether you want to be a dueller who focuses on fort fighting or on duelling. With the new sets it is already way too easy to do everything (but this is a whole different topic), so I think any further step only makes it worse.
Sure, if only fort fights weren’t mostly based on luck.

My point is that, chances to hit/dodge should be changed as it is too luck based.

I think luck effects outcome of fort fight performance by 30-90%, which is pretty insane.

I have 154 chances to hit on my main dueler using shiny GG. I will still miss about more , or have similar stats compared to a player with 139-145 chances to hit.

Giving more stats to dueler will just be a minor improvement on their game, but I agree that they don’t need too big improvements.

So, I lost 100-200 damage for 3-10 more hits? Not a good trade off.

And best thing is, I don’t crit as much!
 

DeletedUser38661

Sure, if only fort fights weren’t mostly based on luck.

My point is that, chances to hit/dodge should be changed as it is too luck based.

I think luck effects outcome of fort fight performance by 30-90%, which is pretty insane.

I have 154 chances to hit on my main dueler using shiny GG. I will still miss about more , or have similar stats compared to a player with 139-145 chances to hit.

Giving more stats to dueler will just be a minor improvement on their game, but I agree that they don’t need too big improvements.

So, I lost 100-200 damage for 3-10 more hits? Not a good trade off.

And best thing is, I don’t crit as much!

You have to take into account that your attack value also depends on leadership, so you will have to put a lot of AP/SP into aiming before your attack value improves substantially. I even think it won't improve at all solely due to the fact that it is aiming^0.5 in the formula. In the end you will loose a lot more than 100-200 damage to score 3-10 more hits, if it is even possible.

I agree with you that the current hit chances is too much based on luck, but I think that can not be changed.
 
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