DeletedUser
One of them has upgraded his weapon, but at least 3 of them swear that it is now a lot harder to hurt NPCs and one of them says he loses 90% of his HP every day, just doing the daily fights.
Still, ce la vie.
Still, ce la vie.
DeletedUser34408
SInce the new duelling formula on worlds where I duel i.e. have skills dedicated to dueling, I win a vast majority of NPC duels but still lose silly amounts of HP against NPC's with a duel difficulty of 1, at times 1-10 aim from a NPC is enough for them to land twice and take 500HP from 1500HP regardless of skill differences. On other worlds where I am a pure trader, I switch to duelling gear like doolins/pinters and by the time I finish my 3 NPC dailies I am down to 100HP from 1500HP against NPC's with a duel difficulty level of 1.
Contrary to popular belief the duelling formula received more than a "slight" tweak, luck appears to be with aim now rather than dodge so as a ranged dueller expect to lose silly amounts HP for no other reason other than luck.
NB: I personally like the new duelling formula though I think the luck with aim is too severe on ranged duellers who have no resistance as per my example of a pure trader who does 3 NPC dailies at duel difficulty level of 1 and loses the majority their HP.
Contrary to popular belief the duelling formula received more than a "slight" tweak, luck appears to be with aim now rather than dodge so as a ranged dueller expect to lose silly amounts HP for no other reason other than luck.
NB: I personally like the new duelling formula though I think the luck with aim is too severe on ranged duellers who have no resistance as per my example of a pure trader who does 3 NPC dailies at duel difficulty level of 1 and loses the majority their HP.
DeletedUser22685
Actually, the changes should have shifted the focus away from luck altogether. However, duel NPCs didn't exist when the original duel formula was active, so unforeseen side effects may be present when dealing with the random and illogical skills that the bandits tend to have.
You might want to try checking the tactics of those NPCs with 1-10 aim, though. And if you haven't tried shifting points to appearance after the update, you probably should consider that as well.
You might want to try checking the tactics of those NPCs with 1-10 aim, though. And if you haven't tried shifting points to appearance after the update, you probably should consider that as well.
DeletedUser34408
I did keep an eye on the tactics, being a pure trader at say lvl 130, you get a good base of Charisma which is then amplified with Doolins/Pinter clothing so at times my Appearance is 300+ against double digit tactics. Even my ranged dueller toon with 300+ App, 500+ Aim and 615 Dodge will hit NPCs and get hit once or twice from NPCs with very little aim and tactics (both under 50).
I would look at re-calibrating the NPCs rather than worry about the formula (it has been working well in the general field of play), I am not the best dueler in the world but I know my way around and if I struggle as a pure trader with top shelf duelling gear to put away 3 NPCs for my dailies I would imagine it would be rather difficult for those not so familiar with duelling or the duelling formula.
I would look at re-calibrating the NPCs rather than worry about the formula (it has been working well in the general field of play), I am not the best dueler in the world but I know my way around and if I struggle as a pure trader with top shelf duelling gear to put away 3 NPCs for my dailies I would imagine it would be rather difficult for those not so familiar with duelling or the duelling formula.
DeletedUser37520
Diggo11 said:
I believe this was a great change, if you would've buffed dodging at the same time. As it stands now, it feels like you just removed the 50% upfront chance of dodging a shot while leaving the dodging alone making it so that ranged duelers are even more likely to take massive damage. It's my belief that dodging needs a buff.
I'll provide an example. I recently faced off against a, on paper, fairly equal dueler. Approximately the same level and clothing. I had a little better anti-range specc (high aiming and dodging, lower shooting) than my opponent which we both are. My main advantage was that I knew exactly where he aimed and also had some knowledge of where he dodged. Even though I had this knowledge and changed my aim and stance accordingly, I only managed to land 4 out of 7 shots while he hit 5 out of 6 shots.
It's pretty easy to see that InnoGames has taken a firm stance against zero motivation dueling. When working against it you're completely ignoring the bigger picture. Just ask yourself this question, why do people choose zero motivation dueling? Don't come with an answer along the lines of "because they're cowards that likes to bully defenseless adventurers".
Source: The West Dev Blog
DeletedUser37451
Well, maybe the changes should do that but actually the didn't. Quite the converse, the influence of luck is much bigger than before!
DeletedUser34408
Whether it's luck or perceived luck (aim having more weight than dodge) it's definitely apparent.
DeletedUser37168
When dueling NPCs, just make sure that your resistance skills (toughness/reflex) are higher than NPC damage skills (vigor/shooting). It´s more or less the same for duels against other players. Like others mentioned even with high dodge/tactics, you will still get hit so the best approach is to keep your resistance skills at high level (at least 300 or higher). That´s easy to achieve if you have some of the recent dueling sets (Collin/Gordon) even if you are not skilled for duels.
DeletedUser
Got shown a screenshot today. My mate fought an NPC for his dailies. The NPC had an Aim of 1. He had a Dodging of 100 and he lost about 80% of his HP. It's insane.
Even with any bonuses, an Aim of 1, should NEVER do that much damage against a Dodging of 100.
Even with any bonuses, an Aim of 1, should NEVER do that much damage against a Dodging of 100.
DeletedUser34408
My mate on Arizona just lost a duel, he is ranged dueller who was wearing Doolins and was facing off against a forter who was also wearing Doolins with a melee weapon. My mates Stats were: Aim 500+, Shooting 250, App 475, Dodge 500+ against 350 aim, 300 tactics, 200 vigor and 250 Dodge, result was 1600-1700 with my mate the attacker losing the duel???
DeletedUser37168
Seems like a waste of skills in aim/dodge since he should boost his shooting, toughness (that's too much taken damage against 200 vigor) and reflex. Also, Gordon is a much better choice than Doolins for range duelers (big bonus in aiming, shooting and toughness so only need to improve your reflex).
DeletedUser34408
Why would he need to boost his shooting, his opponent had Zero reflex and 200 toughness (55 or so secondary resistance), he had enough shooting to cover the resistance, had enough Aim to cover opponents Dodge, had enough Appearance to cover opponents Tactics and had enough Dodge to cover opponents Aim yet he hit only 6 times and the opponent hit 7 times.
Florence, I am not asking for duelling advice just pointing out some peculiarities with the new duelling formula.
Florence, I am not asking for duelling advice just pointing out some peculiarities with the new duelling formula.
DeletedUser22685
If his opponent was a premium soldier those tactics could account for some of it, but I agree that I wouldn't like to be seeing those kinds of results against non-specialists if I were a dueller.
DeletedUser37168
There is nothing wrong with formula. Devs already stated that the effect from aim/dodge is significantly decreased. What your friend needs to do is to increase his low toughness to decrease damage from opponents vigor since he will get shot despite his high dodge. He can do this by moving skills from aim and dodge to resistance skills.
DeletedUser34408
He was Dueller class, we have experimented with Soldier Class' as well, raised Appearance enough to combat non-prem soldiers and raised App again to combat prem Soldiers so we could gain some understanding of App vs Tactics and visa versa.
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DeletedUser34408
Actually, this is what the devs said:
"How did the other duelling calculations change?
Most of the other changes are inline with the 2008 duelling formula. The internal workings have never been discovered and I’m not about to change that, but most notably look out for less of an emphasis on aiming and dodging in favour of appearance and tactics."
I take it you're a melee dueller, Rachel? Melee duellers seemed to like the previous formula too where it was possible for them to dodge every round with zero dodge, infact, melee duellers seem to like formulas where all they need is resistance and some luck, anyhow my example is for a ranged dueller who wants to stay a ranged dueller and not to morph into a resistance dueller because of irregularities with the dueling formula.
DeletedUser37168
I'm a melee dueler.
With the new formula, you can't avoid reskilling for resistance (both melee and range) since aim/dodge builds are not effective anymore and you already get a big bonus in tactics and appearance from the cloths.DeletedUser34408
Anymore? Aim and Dodge builds haven't been effective in years, obviously you're part of the demographic that the formula was redesigned for. I switched to melee too just recently to get a better idea of what's needed to win a duel:
I can get attacked by a ranged dueller who has: 500+ Aim, 600 Dodge, 350 App against my 500 Aim, 30 tactics and 30 dodge and still win the duel (how I manage to land 2 and sometimes 3 hits with my 30 tactics against 350 Appearance? - I'm not really sure)
I can get attacked by a ranged dueller who has: 500+ Aim, 600 Dodge, 350 App against my 500 Aim, 30 tactics and 30 dodge and still win the duel (how I manage to land 2 and sometimes 3 hits with my 30 tactics against 350 Appearance? - I'm not really sure)
DeletedUser37168
Aim and dodge builds were effective till recently when the formula was changed and I had a very nice high dodge build before the update. I also have a range dueler skilled according to the new formula and it works just fine for me.
The new formula is much more fun than boring luck based aim/dodge duels before the update.
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DeletedUser34408
I am glad that you are satisfied with a erratic algorithm deciding the fate of your skills, I'm not sure that you have addressed any of my concerns or examples, nonetheless, happy gaming to you.