Feedback Update 2.192

[Victor Kruger]

Rant incoming

Dumbest idea yet to add uber stuff in shops post 150 that increase with lvl.. I mean seriously lvl 170 to buy and use the purple and its pretty much better than any set while the same lvl 170 can hit down to approx lvl 120 or less ? WTF is the point of the DL other than to make sure you get your face kicked in if you dare bother to duel now ?

At least make it so increasing duel lvl allows it to purchase some of this uber gear at the DL not real and have some kind of chance ... I mean.. i understand many players need some kind of edge vs ones who understand dueling because they suck but jesus, these items at lvl 170 since they increase with lvl now is ridiculous if your 40 or so lvls below even with the same item they STILL get a huge advantage and points .. so the answer is to make even better stuff shops exclusive to uber lvls .. lvl 170 while some post lvl 155 has to spend the next 3 years trying to even lvl enough to buy it too ?

No chance of catching up to the ubers at all already. A massive point advantage and can smack anyone about 40 lvls lowers was bad enough.. now ubers get even more stuff to make them even harder ? come on

A challenge i like ... a waste of my time with no chance i dont.

Thats me done post lvl 100 dueling & one less reason to buy anything at events if it makes no difference to withstand uber attacks + uber shop gear its a no brainer .. just wont bother spending & stop wasting my time after lvl 120 DL & drop the world concerned ... & no I wont bother going FF on half dead worlds instead. Its not like any new world can even fill meds let alone get built or fill large so again a waste of my time... go berry pick ? naaa got a million games better can do that.

Oh well I needed to inactive some worlds anyway so thx inno for the extra push i needed .. nice one, rant over have a good weekend

 

[DeletedUser15368]

Why are all of the new items in all of the shops, intentional break from how this game is designed, mistake or lazy oversight?

Spoiler: Tell me the game designer never played this game, without telling me the game designed never played this game

 

[Kidd Kalypso]

Well, not all of the new items. Still waiting on what the fix is for the fancy ones.

 

[PrancingPurplePony]

I've seen some upgraded gunsmiths that do not have the precise Waupee's revolvers, but that seems to be the only thing missing [besides the fancy ones that are in limbo]

 

[Pankreas PorFavor]

in beta they have a forum contest where fancy Waupee's items are given as rewards.

https://forum.beta.the-west.net/index.php?threads/waupee-needs-your-help.4411/

if this is the "fix", it sucks.

 

[roland jacobs]

in beta they have a forum contest where fancy Waupee's items are given as rewards.

https://forum.beta.the-west.net/index.php?threads/waupee-needs-your-help.4411/

if this is the "fix", it sucks.

after getting yelled at by people, this is the response from Loki

At the moment it's drop only (I know they can't be achieved due to the high price), that's why I gave them as rewards to the current contest.
Better than nothing but it surely won't be the only way.

 

[WhyN0t]

I mean seriously lvl 170 to buy and use the purple and its pretty much better than any set

They're not. You don't have aiming and dodging with these sets. And aiming is the most important skill in duel. You barely hit something, don't dodge anything and often times don't have enough t/r to minimize the damage from your opponent, because older tailor items have more t/f than these new ones. Yeah, you don't have vigor tactics and appearance, but you have more t/f and aiming. And this is all you need. I haven't found a single situation when these new clothes would be better than the old ones. Maybe in I don't know what situation an item like this would be useful, but very rarely. I found an interesting build for these clothes, but you need certain items with big upgrades and a specific build. You must be a soldier, have character bonus, a nugget exclusive horse set, high level and many extra skills. And even then...you're not unbeatable. But you can leave yourself duelable overnight and win most duels, because it's hard to combine vs that combination. Unfortunately, I can't try it because I'm not a soldier and I'm glad nobody tried that combination. It's not these new purple items that are OP, but the soldier's tactical bonus.

Edit: Look at a concrete example. Here my opponent had 1000+ aiming and 200+ dodging, but initially when I attacked him he had somewhere around 200 aiming and 200 dodging, but much more tactics and vigor. He did well to change items otherwise he would have lost much worse, but it still wasn't enough. If you don't have enough dodging, your tactical bonus won't do much. It doubles your aiming, but your dodging is still bad. If you have at least enough toughness/reflex it may work, but even in this situation it's risky, sometimes you win the tactical bonus, sometimes you don't, you'd better play with a classic set of toughness/reflex + aiming, tactics t/r is weird and risky. You can win the tactical bonus, but not have aiming/dodging and still lose.

 

[Artem124]

nah he just has a crappy build..

https://prnt.sc/seZGFevtvO3F

this is what ive came up with as a combo and im pure ld
new purple set gives alot of skills and i can easily make myself adding a bit of skills into reflex/tough to get 1k each or + and put the remaining into aim
tactic i already got tons off.. over 1k

p.s if i was soldier then it can be made deadly combo set

 

[WhyN0t]

nah he just has a crappy build..

How do you know? How can you possibly know our builds??

this is what ive came up with as a combo and im pure ld

I don't really like it. You say that you use this set because it has a lot of skills, and with all that, in the horse set, you have Mclaughlin, who has extremely few skills, and cowgirl's weapons, which, apart from aiming and strength, has nothing. It seems to me that you are sabotaging yourself. Neither the tactic is that great, nor the t/r. Sure, in certain situations it's ok, but you could have had more suitable values with other combinations. You are nowhere near unbeatable with this set.

Okay, you also said that that Jaguar's clothes are better than Josephine's just because you beat someone with Josephine's.... him having Josephine's clothes on defense. I have no expectations of you

 

[Al35ul]

I have no expectations of you

I don't know, he looks pretty good to me

 

[Beefmeister]

man judges how good one is by the leaderboards

 

[Al35ul]

man judges how good one is by the leaderboards

How else would you? I agree that rankings don't always help to decide how good a dueler is on the newer worlds, but it does exactly that on old worlds (e.g. W13), where the [majority of] players who are now in the top rankings are the exact same players who were dueling before tombola sets, premium sets and upgrading (and so on) were a thing. These exact players were dueling at a time when game/duel knowledge were some of the bigger factors that impacted the result of a duel, as opposed to RNG, level of upgrades and tombola gear...so you can't really say that they're there because of tombola gear, premium sets or whatever.

To be in the top duel rankings in an old world, 99.99% of the time, you had to be an XP dueler which meant dueling other high DL duelers. The players who were in the top duel rankings back in the days are the exact players who are now in the same spots. World 10 and World 1, for example (among other closed worlds), for all of their abundance of zero mot duelers, still had some of the best (and most) XP duelers - most of the top duelers in the current old worlds are migrants from those [closed] worlds.

To make it easier to understand:

game knowledge + duel knowledge - being a njub = winning more duels
winning more duels + dueling other high DL players = the better a dueler you are
the better a dueler you are = the higher you will be in the ranking

...or at least that's how it usually went...add tombola gear and upgrades somewhere in that equation but the rankings don't lie

 

[darthmaul99174]

Arizona built different

For defense prem soldiers the new waupee gear is OP when used right. I wouldn't say it's an all-rounder set but for the average high level rich main account It has it's purposes. If you do use each SP right and utilise just how many SPs shop gear + waupee gear gives 99% of normal players simply cannot compete just because of the sheet stat difference. Although Pearl being released at the same time is a very good counter balance.

 

[Beefmeister]

i'm sorry bro but that's not how it works
duelers on the west leaderboards are the ones who get most xp. you can get that from attacking church gear or whatever as long as the player you attack is a higher duel level than you.

as far as it concerns me artem is a very big noob. everything related to this game

 

[Artem124]

How do you know? How can you possibly know our builds??

well first of all.. who who defends in musical horse set?
if he went for just the aim thats dumb - app - vigor useless from musical because purple set gives so much from it
theres couple other defense horse sets thats better then musical for defense
and if he had his skills right, with prem just from gear he would get like 1200 tactic alone
plenty of else to move your skills and ap else where
the thing about soldiers when prem you dont need to put sps in tactic because you get the tactic bouns
if i was him i can be around 1200 tough/reflex with around 600-750 aim and gear + bouns would give 1200ish tactic
dodge skill is useless..
thats a pretty op combo if you tell me to have.. + he gets plenty of hp to survive since he soldier

btw i can increase my tactic/reflex/tough much more if i wanted too with my combo
i just use musical for the damage it gives.. yea it gives aim only and vigor no need as much since i got alot from gear..

 

[DeletedUser15368]

How else would you? I agree that rankings don't always help to decide how good a dueler is on the newer worlds, but it does exactly that on old worlds (e.g. W13), where the [majority of] players who are now in the top rankings are the exact same players who were dueling before tombola sets, premium sets and upgrading (and so on) were a thing. These exact players were dueling at a time when game/duel knowledge were some of the bigger factors that impacted the result of a duel, as opposed to RNG, level of upgrades and tombola gear...so you can't really say that they're there because of tombola gear, premium sets or whatever.

To be in the top duel rankings in an old world, 99.99% of the time, you had to be an XP dueler which meant dueling other high DL duelers. The players who were in the top duel rankings back in the days are the exact players who are now in the same spots. World 10 and World 1, for example (among other closed worlds), for all of their abundance of zero mot duelers, still had some of the best (and most) XP duelers - most of the top duelers in the current old worlds are migrants from those [closed] worlds.

To make it easier to understand:

game knowledge + duel knowledge - being a njub = winning more duels
winning more duels + dueling other high DL players = the better a dueler you are
the better a dueler you are = the higher you will be in the ranking

...or at least that's how it usually went...add tombola gear and upgrades somewhere in that equation but the rankings don't lie

Well before tombola sets, and for a while after it, we mostly duelled zero motivation if you were serious about it - to avoid running out of people to duel when we did raids - the most important event in a duelling town's day.
Which meant that the njubs who duelled for diminishing exp returns were quickly out of the duel range of the most active duellers.

Eventually we'd max level and go hunting for the big heads who thought they were hot stuff because of the rankings. Even if you beat them 100-1 times, you're probably not catching them in the rankings.

Of course, that just my view on it as one of the 0%ers. There's really no way to measure up the exp duellers and zero mot duellers of the past using the rankings. Most of them have deactivated or deleted anyway.

For a long time duelling was 100% about the gear of both participants, now levels are relevant again, so whoever built the most churches for the last 7 years is better in duels - it's even less useful as a measure of skill, knowledge or ability.

 

[Al35ul]

i'm sorry bro but that's not how it works
duelers on the west leaderboards are the ones who get most xp. you can get that from attacking church gear or whatever as long as the player you attack is a higher duel level than you.

That must be it

Well before tombola sets, and for a while after it, we mostly duelled zero motivation if you were serious about it - to avoid running out of people to duel when we did raids - the most important event in a duelling town's day.
Which meant that the njubs who duelled for diminishing exp returns were quickly out of the duel range of the most active duellers.

I think, at least in my experience, that it was quite the opposite where the XP duelers were on average better at dueling. That's not to say there weren't some XP duelers that were just horrible. There were many who were XP duelers on one world and zero mot on another (vic, rod,neo and many more so yeah can be hard to compare the two duel styles)

Even if you beat them 100-1 times, you're probably not catching them in the rankings.

There's really no way to measure up the exp duellers and zero mot duellers of the past using the rankings. Most of them have deactivated or deleted anyway.

Yeah I agree, but somewhat recent stats can still be used. A prime example of this was phonebook (no1 dueler on w1 in 2009-2010ish and overall a top dueler ) after he moved to Dakota and still remained a top dueler even after years of quitting dueling and still kept up (defensively )with the early low mot duelers there.

I definitely agree that there were many examples of 0 mot duelers absolutely outclassing some of the XP duelers, but on average XP duelers were just better. Playing a a stronger opponent daily as opposed to the normal church builder a 0mot duelers would face helps with that.

 

[WhyN0t]

60% of my duels are done with 10% motivation. If i'm not on top it means i'm bad at duels? What kind of logic are you applying? If the man doesn't know how to combine the items and loses most of the duels versus duelists, winning only against people in work/fort clothes being in the top 10, can you say about him that he is a good duelist?
I wonder how you got to be an admin/manager, you were giving out discouragement warnings by mistake for years, you had no idea until I told you.
You are also the type of person who only attack players in work/fort clothes, you even said on the chat at one point that that's all you attack, I don't know if you have the right to give your opinion about who is a good or bad duelist.

(this is a translation of a real conversation, but the ign were changed)
[19:50] (WhyNot): Al35ul, do you want to duel?
[19:52] (Al35ul): no thanks, WhyNot, I only attack workers and fortists

 

[DeletedUser15368]

I think, at least in my experience, that it was quite the opposite where the XP duelers were on average better at dueling. That's not to say there weren't some XP duelers that were just horrible. There were many who were XP duelers on one world and zero mot on another (vic, rod,neo and many more so yeah can be hard to compare the two duel styles)

Both sets of playstyles would spend about the same, so really it's too hot to contest theoretically.
The zero moti's were also duelling the other zero moti's, who I believe were in the majority of most active duellers up to around World 12. Usually there were level differences and one had to catch up to the other for parity, which encouraged things to move along towards the level cap.
Most people would do the exp thing at first and quickly regret it as they could no longer participate in duelling - next world they'd zero mot.

I definitely agree that there were many examples of 0 mot duelers absolutely outclassing some of the XP duelers, but on average XP duelers were just better. Playing a a stronger opponent daily as opposed to the normal church builder a 0mot duelers would face helps with that.

They were "stronger" because they were higher levels, because their focus was on exp, I'll absolutely concede that.

In the rankings, my 10k trash duels don't mean as much as 1k wins with an exp focus, even though it could be said both playstyles prayed primarily on higher level builders.

 

[Al35ul]

You are also the type of person who only attack players in work/fort clothes, you even said on the chat at one point that that's all you attack, I don't know if you have the right to give your opinion about who is a good or bad duelist.

I'm not sure why you think I'm referring to you in my posts even though they all were referring to and using examples related to .net, .net players, and .net rankings, a server you've never played on unless I'm wrong? In fact, I've only once quoted your post and that was about Artem.

[19:50] (WhyNot): Al35ul, do you want to duel?
[19:52] (Al35ul): no thanks, WhyNot, I only attack workers and fortists

yeah, that's usually a big part of playing zero mot

you were giving out discouragement warnings by mistake for years, you had no idea until I told you.

what's a discouragement warning?

I wonder how you got to be an admin/manager

lulu put in a good word for me