Duel Mot Split...

[gunner86]

when i used to play tribal wars (5 years ago) we used to have different worlds with different features, like some worlds have all units while others have only few units and i was thinking is it possible to have one world to allow dueling motivation for npc and players same like we used to have earlier and others with separate mot? by reserving one world for zero mot duelers (i mean system we used to have earlier) we can keep players happy

tho m not sure of it is possible to do it or not, just a suggestion

 

[Pankreas PorFavor]

and can you point me to the spot Joony posted please??

http://forum.beta.the-west.net/showthread.php?p=25792#post25792

Don't you think if they wanted to completely remove zero motivation duelling, they could have simply made it that duel motivation resets to 100% at midnight like it does with jobs?

imagine the reaction to THAT! but we will probably get there sooner or later, it's hard to doubt that. they are just easing us into it.

the intention is obvious. there are only a few who can be online that much and keep their duel mot at 0 all the time. the number of 0mot duelers WILL decrease drastically, they will be almost eradicated. it won't happen in the next month or two (unless steps 2, 3...N are implemented), but it will happen. just as it is intended. it is impossible to duel and not get dueling XP, so DL will rise. slowly or quickly - depends how active you can be. and I don't believe anyone will quit their job or stop going to vacation just to stay 0mot

 

[DeletedUser23437]

thanks Pankreas

would be nice to have a potion to reskill when they make these changes, just like they offered when they changed ffing, because some may want skills placed differently if they will be forced to fight bigger players with more AP/SP in the near future

 

[DeletedUser36011]

thanks Pankreas

would be nice to have a potion to reskill when they make these changes, just like they offered when they changed ffing, because some may want skills placed differently if they will be forced to fight bigger players with more AP/SP in the near future

It would be nice to get a free potion, I wouldn't doubt that for a second, if it were to happen it would affect the 6 main duel skills. AP wont be touched at all.

However, I don't think the potion is going to happen since the actual duel skill were not changed in their effectiveness, just a change it motivation.

 

[DeletedUser]

Do you see the problem now? According to your logs, you hit anyone available, not because they are available, but because you're probably 90% sure you can win the duel. This includes players holding, crowbars, daggers, razor blades and back to back bible dueling? Seriously? And these duels took place before the update.

Yet, you are participating in this thread as if you use duelling as a competitive sport. If you did, your KD ratio wouldn't be so far apart from each other. Basic logic there.




I still play this game, a lot. I have 4 worlds, one on each class. What gives you the impression that I don't play this game? In fact, I think all my moderators are playing this game. There was one I was aware of that didn't but he is a forum moderator involved in a section here that has nothing to do with the game.

There are about 500 active forumers on this board, 15 of which have a problem with the change. Another 7 tickets sent in via the ticket support system and 1 via in-game chat a few days ago. Even if I tripled those figures, you are still amongst the minority which has a problem. Rightfully so, it is not wrong to have a problem with changes made to the game, we have always urged our players to come here and post, discuss and provide suggestions. Not because we just want to see how you whinge about these changes, because they are read by the powers. They are taken into consideration and changes made according to the overall gaming plan for this game.

My post earlier was a subtle warning to keep this thread in a manner which would be readable to everyone, it was not meant as an insult towards you or any other player. Your condescending tone is not appreciated.

I've always known WHY the dueling level system is in. The issue is that the population of the game doesn't support that kind of system now. That system was here when there were hundreds of thousands of accounts per world. The top level was 99 not 150. I'm simply saying update the dueling system like you have FFing, like you have jobs, etc... The dueling system other than massively powerful sets that you had to spend real cash to get in most instances has had no upgrade since what 1.30? And many argue that is a DOWNGRADE. Myself included.

I have no issue with putting in some sort of dueling protection maybe you can make it a premium feature. 50 nuggets every 14 days for duel protection. GOOD MONEY there right? It completely solves the issue of people needing protection

No I hit EVERYONE prior to the update easy or hard (Anyone who knows me can confirm this), I'm sorry you feel that your 500 people on a game thread mean that everything is right here.... Now I duel only easy targets to keep my duel level down. I freely admit that. I almost feel sorry for them, but not sorry enough to raise my duel level... You don't get close to 2800 duels on a world with just over 2000 accounts by just hitting low level/easy targets do you?

Well DT I guess you can't please everyone can you. My posts are never meant to be condescending (with the exception of the history lessons), my apologies if you feel that way. However, please stop attacking my dueling record etc... Is not the role of a moderator to moderate, be impartial, solve disputes, not start, promote, or continue them? I've been a moderator on online PVP games. Did it for years back before browser games existed. Anyone remember Mudds? .

5 years in the game earns people the right to whine/protest when changes they feel negatively impact their and others games are made. It is the demise of online games that don't realize that their players ARE THEIR CUSTOMERS and as such are not expendable.

Respectfully - Smitty Johnson - Farmville dueler version 2.0™

 

[HelenBack]

I have decided to be nice about how I reduce my motivation each morning. It is not high, maybe 4% tops in the morning after 8 hours sleep, so I find 2 of the lowest level duel opposition I can find. Now, however, I have changed as I have decided to be nice

I now equip a Drake's (normal weapon Howdah) and duel them with Drake's instead as I give 1/3 of the damage I would normally give. This gets my duel mot down, doesn't ruin someone else's day and gives us ZMD a better name

Good idea! I've started to do the same... Figaro's for my melee and Huck's for my ranged.


I encourage other ZMDs to do the same... Sure you may like to get the KO, but that also means you will have fewer possible low level targets available if you KO them all. Or you'll have to do more travelling... I also try not to hit the same ones every day (may not always be able to do that... sorry!). I'm not trying to mess up someone else's game... I'm only doing this so my own game doesn't get messed up. Sorry, I have no choice now that I can no longer use NPCs to keep my mot low.

I've always known WHY the dueling level system is in. The issue is that the population of the game doesn't support that kind of system now. That system was here when there were hundreds of thousands of accounts per world. The top level was 99 not 150. I'm simply saying update the dueling system like you have FFing, like you have jobs, etc... The dueling system other than massively powerful sets that you had to spend real cash to get in most instances has had no upgrade since what 1.30? And many argue that is a DOWNGRADE. Myself included.

I have no issue with putting in some sort of dueling protection maybe you can make it a premium feature. 50 nuggets every 14 days for duel protection. GOOD MONEY there right? It completely solves the issue of people needing protection

I agree... The large population waaaaay back when I started gave us a lot of targets to start with... But even then with the larger population, duelers were limited when their dueling level got too high. That's where the "less than a dozen possible targets with half of them KO'd/sleeping/in battles" issue came from. The issue of a lack of targets existed before ZMDs. Now that we have 1/10th the population as we had then, the lack of targets will be far worse when you get up too high. To those who are saying after there are no ZMDs and everyone's duel levels increase, we will have more targets... If that's the case, then why did the duelers of a few years back have such a hard time when there weren't any (or many) ZMDs and the population was +10x as big as it is now?

For those who are fort fighters... What if after every 10 forts you win, one fort gets removed from the world. 14 Counties... 3 per County... 42 forts total per world. Win 420 battles and POOF! No more forts... Now what? Just keep calling battles on that one fort in County 15 that no one can own? Doesn't that sound like fun? Kinda like duelers in a fishbowl...


I wouldn't have a big issue with extending the dueling cooldown to more than an hour... For non-duelers at least. I mentioned adding a "Non-Dueler" option in the "Ideas and Brainfarts" section, which would further limit the range of those who can duel them. (If we got rid of duel levels and focussed on a range around the regular level instead.) They could also add the longer cooldown between duels as part of that "Non-Dueler" option. I wouldn't want the 1 hour cooldown to be extended for everyone, because sometimes you need to smack down a bully and may need as many hits as possible on them. Of course if a "Non-Dueler" decides to duel, then the protection would be removed or they would get an error stating they can not duel until the protection is over.

Also, the protection (in whatever form) should have a waiting period so it can't be abused by duelers that just dueled a bunch of people and want to hide. Or... Have it start right away unless you have just dueled... Maybe make it so you have to wait 24 hours until after your last duel to activate the protection. I don't think any protection should be a Nugget only option... Atleast have it available using both Bonds and Nuggets so anyone can have a chance to activate it.


I'm very leery about the path Inno is going down... I don't know what to expect next. Quite frankly, it looks like they are trying to get rid of dueling. If you look over the past updates, they are very fort-oriented. The only "updates" to dueling have nerfed possible builds... Resistance for example... Now ZMDs. Soon there won't be any variety in the builds... Soon after that, we won't need the dueler builds because dueling will be squashed.

Joony's wording may be spot on. ("This is a first step to fight Zero motivation dueling...") It does seem like there is a war to get rid of the vermin aka duelers.


BTW, I have a lot of respect for DT... We may not always agree, but I do still believe he tries to remain as neutral as possible... However, he's still as human as the rest of us. Oh and... I'm still gonna duel ya!


(I've skipped over replying to a lot of the posts... Sorry, just been too busy to get on here to post very much. I don't mean to leave anyone out, I just don't have the time.)

 

[DeletedUser]

A word to the wise. It is useless mentioning your achievements. Your arguments will be taken by other readers at their meritocracy and not depending upon on your achievements which are scarcely related to this game.

A Moderator accepts his job knowing fully well what's expected of him and and what is the general perception of him. Also he has more knowledge about the game than the rest of 99 percentile of playing population, and as such does not need any defending his actions or opinion.

 

[DeletedUser]

How did you figure that?

Irrespective of anyone's position, achievements and experience, every argument carries only as much weight as the merit in it. Mentioning anything else is off topic and dilutes the logic.

 

[DeletedUser]

Deleted it, totally misread what you said

 

[DeletedUser16628]

This changes things dramatically so far as dueling 0 motivation goes.Any time they make changes it takes time to work out the bugs so I'll see if I continue to dislike it or not.

 

[HelenBack]

Well... I've given this new NPC/Dueling Mot Split issue almost 2 months to try it out... Some of my duelers are now sitting at +40% duel mot because I got KO'd by a job or duel... add in that I went away for the weekend (had to go) and wasn't able to get online as much... Now it's a week after I got back and I've been too busy to play often enough, so my duel mot is still too high. I don't have the time to run around and look for low XP victims... So I can't lower my duel mot. My AZ toon is already down to 82 targets and that is one of my most active worlds.


Today I finally had some time and wound up chatting with all the peeps that I've missed while I was away and just too busy to be online... I didn't actually manage to get much dueling done to lower my mot. Plus having to run all over the bloody map to find low XP targets is really getting old.

In w11 I went and dueled the Chinese Game Mastered Characters... Lost a bunch of HP but it helped to lower my mot without ruining other people's games... and they were standing around in their town... Closest I could find to NPCs.


Anyways, I think I'm done... I can't continue like this... 5+ years down the crapper.


If we could turn back the clock to when there were hundreds of thousands playing the game, then I may not have to waste as much time running all over looking for targets... If only Inno would listen... If only they would advertise this game and promote it, maybe we would get more players... If only... sigh...

It saddens me to think of all the great peeps that we've lost due to the changes that were made and not for the better... Except it may be for the better for the fort fighters... They will get their Farmville... Have fun.

 

[DeletedUser]

OK.. I got most of the way-enough through this thread. And I am going to keep this short.

I've been around a long time. I remember no NPC dueling, no chats, no forts... I remember zero motivation dueling concept coming up, and the decision to allow zero motivation dueler to keep 100% money instead of decreasing the money based on their duel-motivation (a mistake, I've said from the beginning - yell at me later)... In the 'olden days'... Duel motivation increased at half its current rate back then.

Why is dueling and getting KOd and not allowed to duel for 48 hours when that is your purpose treated the same as 1 energy spent on a job you shouldn't be doing and getting KOd and rewarded with? no duels for 48 hours...

Solutions: Good for the goose, good for the gander...
Dueling and you get duel-KOd: You cannot duel for 48 hours. OK, fine, we've been dealing with that for years...
Fort fighting and get a fort fighting-KO: You cannot fort fight for 48 hours. Should be more like 96 hours to a week, but I'm being a little nice here.
Jobs: You get a job-KO: You cannot do any jobs for 48 hours... And this one might be more equivalent at 24 hours...

That all seems fair to me...

THAT might open up new aspects for people to:
: "Perhaps it's time for you to explore other adventures within the game now and use the features provided to you as they were initially intended."
Why does a job KO still prevent you from dueling or from being dueled? That 'loophole' was supposed to have 'been fixed' a while back, but was nerfed when there were too many complaints...

 

[DeletedUser30224]

A job KO should not give you duel protection.
Duelling is attacking someone specifically with the intent of harming their character, therefore if you are KO'd it makes sense to have respite for 48h. It makes no sense for you not to be able to do a job if you get KO'd on a job, none whatsoever. As for fort fighting, you would never ever in a million years fill 2 large battles back to back if you implement anything like you mentioned.

 

[HelenBack]

A job KO should not give you duel protection.
Duelling is attacking someone specifically with the intent of harming their character, therefore if you are KO'd it makes sense to have respite for 48h. It makes no sense for you not to be able to do a job if you get KO'd on a job, none whatsoever. As for fort fighting, you would never ever in a million years fill 2 large battles back to back if you implement anything like you mentioned.

No, a Job KO should not give you duel protection... but it does.

A duel KO should mean you can not duel or be dueled for 48 hours, which it does.

A Job KO should mean you can not do that job (or maybe even any) for 48 hours, which it doesn't... If you were hurt on the job in RL, you would not be able/allowed to do that job until you have healed to the point where you can do it again. Why can it not be the same here?

A Fort battle KO, of course the fort fighters would never go for that... But if someone was seriously hurt (KO'd) in battle, would they really be going to another one 8 hours later? Actually they would be going home in a body bag and wouldn't be going to any more battles... but that's besides the point... That would also be for all job or duel KOs too, btw.

The thing is that there are some major imbalances in this game... Some worse than others. Now that duelers are forced to duel real people instead of NPCs to keep their duel mot down, they have no choice but to let their duel mot rise if they get KO'd on the job or by dueling. Why should duelers be singled out and forced to play the game the way others want them to play it?

Why can't the same be done to the glorified fort fighters? Take away their ability to Job KO and see how much they whine. Force them to have to wait 48 hours before they can go to another battle... I can hear the uproar now...


How about just fix the dueling levels that force duelers to duel fewer and fewer people as their duel level rises? Take away the duel levels and make it so you can duel people 20 levels above and below your own. Keep the duel XP for the ranking battle to number 1. This would open up the Zero Mots and Full Mots to each other and I'm sure they would be keeping each other busy... This would probably lower the hits on the non-duelers as the duelers battle each other for the #1 spot.

All we want is to keep enough targets available to keep our game interesting... Why can't we have that? Why are we continuously forced into a tighter muzzle?


Oh and yes... I know... We didn't have the NPC Duels at one point... We were given them for quests but they also helped to keep our duel mot low so we didn't have to duel low XP peeps. The issue of losing available targets was BEFORE the Zero Mots started being a "problem". And it was when we had 100,000s of people in the world... Now it's slim pickin's.

Does Inno really think that forcing ZMDs to duel low XP peeps is going to help the low XP peeps that are now constantly being dueled? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to say... "NO!!! DUHHHH!!!"

 

[DeletedUser36122]

The argument of ZMDs being big evil bullies who only look to farm non-duelers for their demonic pleasures really bugs me. I could put together a formidable list of exp duelers with a 1k+ win - 100- loss record, because they exclusively farm non-duelers to pump up their exp. The problem isn't the tool, it's the way SOME people use it.

 

[DeletedUser16008]

A few things I now do differently to before but to be honest this is exactly as it was before the NPC was about.

1 I always now duel the first 2 with the lowest DL i can find, this is usually workers or some poor SOB

2 This is normally the same closest people to my town, poor them I dont have time to go picking others 30 mins away before i begin my dueling in earnest.

3 Glad I didnt pick a dueler class to try to duel with, stupid idea to begin with but now a real handicap.

4 dont get kod at any cost now it sets you up for too much xp, so now always stop dueling when I get to a certain hp lvl.

5 dont ever do jobs anymore that may kill me, with a dueling build thats a lot of time wasted.

6 only ever attend battles with low energy or 0 motive now as do not have ability to keep motive at 0 if I die in a battle like before.. just discourages me from battles when ive got 10% motive and have to go out and duel a few or face it being 20% by the time i get back on after dying in battle and sleeping for a good 8/6 hrs

So I spend a lot of time in hotels and I spend the first 24 energy every day kicking the crap out of the lowest dl i can find whereas before id be likely to duel the highest after a couple of npc clicks. I gotta be honest It bores me to tears to waste 30 mins or so dueling beanbags before i can go out and have a real duel ... also means i have to spend more time online to do that... and thats something I do dislike ... before with an hr i could get in a few good duels vs some worth dueling... now mostly its just the beanbag dueling until i have time to play for more than 1 hr... thats a shame

Many lower duelers are now coming into my range to pound, if your low lvl imo it is a real bad idea to duel as once you get to around 60 or so youll have a pretty high duel lvl, enough for others to come looking for you.

I dont mind the discouragement to 0 motivation as too many only ever go for all the easy targets but am a little irritated other things could have been done before just throwing this out.

Personally it wont make much diff to me dueling as i was used to it like this before npc existed but for those that have only seen the game with npc it is going to be a huge change for them. It is true it is killing off the dueling mad towns, they are just slowing up and they arnt going to go do forts either they duel because thats the part of the game they like.

I think overall the intention is good as there are too many 0 mot hiding bullys out there but the way its been done is silly.

The only fix that the game always needed for DL was/is.

Some duel lvl cap to stop it going out of proportion as you duel and raise lvl, because your good why should you meet someone 40 + lvls higher in points ? its stupid and the duel lvl should drop over time, allowing a range of targets and people if they wished to change to do something else without being a farm victim for xp.

IMO this was a a sledgehammer solution to crack a nut and has done nothing to help activity in dueling at all, dedicated duelers want to duel they dont want to be forced to do other things and they will simply become inactive.

Im not crying about the update im not too bothered as it changes not much for me just a couple of people i would not usually beat up on now get it daily like clockwork but thats not my fault its just what i need to do every day now.

The prob is with all the players that have never played the game before npc and had to spend the first hr of every day looking for those DL options ... for some that will be a pain in the butt...

 

[canufeelit]

Glad I didnt pick a dueler class to try to duel with, stupid idea to begin with but now a real handicap

a dueler can duel anyone around them for 15 mins of their travel time, 30 with premium. a fast dueler can town hop around most of the populated world in a couple hours. and without prem it doesn't go up that much faster.

and don't leave us Hell... its only letting them win

 

[DeletedUser14793]

Just opened up the west forum to see if it was time to come back. Looks like this game has gotten alot worse then when i had left, i had the itch to come back and relive the dueling glory days well maybe someone will make another game someday that will be like how the west was. Glad to see Vic and Helen alive and kicking though

 

[DeletedUser19518]

HelenHuggles has a point on what she wrote and mods may check it.

 

[DeletedUser35968]

Since Duel motivation is split, there should be different buffs for NPC and players.
For eg, there are some quest needed to gain $500 from NPC. So low motivation duelers can use NPC Duel motivation buff to gain more money from NPC to finish quest.