Reworking Class Advantages

[DeletedUser30224]

Idea Title:
Rework the way we think of our characters, adventurers, soldiers, duelers, workers.
Details:
Ever since I started playing The West (2010) we had just 4 options of class characters. You picked one and you are one to the day you quit or are deleted for inactivity. It works well, we are used to it and never give it much thought, but what if you would not have a class character? This is not a typical RPG where you have different classes as in races, orc, elf, human etc ... just cowboys and cowgirls.

This is what I am proposing:

• There is a pool of advantages users can choose from and assign them to their characters.
• These advantages are classified in tiers and you cannot have 2 advantages from the same tier.
• At lvl 120 for a price of 2000 bonds or 2000 nuggets you can reset your chosen character advantages.
• Users can publicize their advantages but by default others cannot see your character chosen advantages, not even on the battlefield. (the x for soldier, slash for duelers and so on will no longer be applicable).
• There will be a special Tier that will contain locked advantages that will be unlocked by finishing quests, achievements, crafts, battles, duels and so on. The advantages in this Tier will be minor

//Edited//- refer to page3
These are just a few examples. Values will change accordingly, I repeat: just a few examples of attributes.
Tier1:
Starting with hit 2 within one round of a fort battle, 25% chance to ghost that round
Fort battle 10% chance to score a critical hit (10% * total HP)
Fort battle sector bonus +30% for yourself only
Extra HP (+5) per skill point allocated in Health
...

Tier2:
Battle leadership increase for you and your neighbours by +25% from your leadership skill
Duel motivation rises faster +40%
Initiate duels in a range of 15 min around yourself without the need to travel
In duels you receive a bonus of 50% to your tactic skill
[zd3no] In duels you receive a bonus of +25% to your appearance skill
...

Tier3:
Extra duel cash +10%
Chance to find more items +10%
Ability to see the bonus a player gets from equipment
[Elmyr] Extra +25% bonus to Stamina skill for you and neighbors in a battle
[Elmyr] Extra +25% bonus to Hiding skill for you and neighbors in a battle
[zd3no]Trial: 5% chance to ghost in a duel if you get hit in first and second round. This will end the duel in round 2 and victor calculated from those 2 rounds.
...

Tier4:
Level required to use a weapon is lowered by 3 levels
Danger while doing jobs reduced by -10%
Construction motivation recovery increase by +10%
Speed on the map increased by 10%
[zd3no]Trial: 3% chance for a job to drop 2x products. (or +20% if they implement the proposed standard 5% chance of double product drop ... making it 6% or 7% if premium)
...

Tier5:
Experience earned from work increased by +5%
Construction labour points bonus of +5% if building in own town
Chance to find more products +10%
Free hotel up to 2 stars
Banking fees reduced by -2%
...

Special Tier:

1. Battle General (+3% battle damage,health, chance to hit, chance to dodge when successfully completed all Fort achievements)
2. Duel Maestro (+3% duel damage, aim, dodge, appear, tactic, vigor/shooting, reflex/toughness and HP when completed all Duel achievements)
3. Craft proficient (+3% product drop chance when ...)
4. Heavy Sleeper (+3% health and energy regeneration when slept 1000 hours in a hotel or barrack)
5. Phoenix (+3% map speed when traveled x miles)
6. ...

Do not forget that you cannot mix advantages from the same tier

Visual Aids:
not applicable at the moment
Reasons for Submitting: Diversity

 

[DeletedUser31022]

I really like this idea! I hope a change like this is really given a chance.

 

[DeletedUser34977]

really like this one, this will bring more peeps in the game back who are lvl 120 and are bored with their old toons and new ones to strive to get to lvl 120

 

[DeletedUser34315]

How would this handle premium? If there was no character bonus premium, what would replace it in your system?

 

[DeletedUser]

Tower Specialist (+30% chance to hit and dodge when mounted a tower in battle)

What's the point of changing the worker bonus to apply to towers only?

Battle Leader (25% of your leadership applies to all team players in your sector)

So if you have a 30-square sector full of players with this advantage, 100 leadership, and premium, everyone would have +19 (1600^0.4) to their bonuses from leadership? Why change this from the current soldier advantage which only affects adjacent players?

Battle Ghost (30% chance to ghost the remaining round in a battle after 2 hits/dodged-shots)

Why change ANY current class advantage? I really don't see how you could think that the worker bonus is too powerful and needs to be nerfed to affect towers only and the advent bonus is underpowered and needs to have a better chance of working.

Do not forget that you cannot mix advantages from the same tier

Then the special tier shouldn't be a tier, just individual advantages.

How would this handle premium? If there was no character bonus premium, what would replace it in your system?

Why would it change? I see nothing in the suggestion that says anything of the sort.

 

[DeletedUser]

I really like the ideam but it needs a horseload of tweaking

i kinda agree with that elmyr said above me

though in addition i would say

Sniper (+10% chance to score critical damage(10% from max hp) in a fort battle)

make 1 of those percentages 5% or both, since atm its to powerfull

Health Points bonus (+5 health points per SP in HP) -

and make that 3 hp per sp in hp, it basically means a 12k tank now would have 10k hp with that tweak, making the enourmous gaps between premium soldier hp and others a bit lower, also in combo with less. or less hurtfull crits you still should be able to sustain about the same amount of hits, yet it improves the hit taking capabilities of people without hp bonus, meaning also a 6k person could take point without dying in 1 round in an attack

Product Master (increases the chance for a job to drop a product by 30%)

ps with prem thats more then prem income would even give. thats an increase of 20% thats something inno won't do, since 90% of people will pick it since believe it or not the majority doesn;'t FF or duel at all but just quest and craft, 10% which it is now or maybe 15% should be ok, 30% is to much, imagine doing char premium, prem income and a gold job otherwise, you can find 5 items a time lol



Also instead of 2k nug or 2k bonds, it might be more fun something suggested on forums before and i did it also in the questionairre of giving an extremely hard quest at level 120 with an reward that would make it worthwhile, and i think a reset of this is something worthwhile, since no one will do 20 times perform with bill or 100 times robbing banks if the reward is a poxy 2k dollars, but something like this in combo with an hazardous quest would be a good challenge

 

[DeletedUser]

make 1 of those percentages 5% or both, since atm its to powerfull

I disagree if every class can have soldier hp.

 

[DeletedUser]

I disagree if every class can have soldier hp.

thats why the hp bonus should be nerfed as well.

Actually coming to think of it, having different classes has no use actually if you implement this system lol

maybe its smarter to give every class 2 fixed bonusses that other classes can't posses, thus still making a class special

but also give like 4 tiers or so to choose off

 

[Ripwise]

All those tier benefits stated above are already in the game in the shape of the buffs. Maybe there are or arrent enough buffs but they do give certain advantages.

 

[DeletedUser30224]

What's the point of changing the worker bonus to apply to towers only?

It's not a worker bonus anymore, that is why

So if you have a 30-square sector full of players with this advantage, 100 leadership, and premium, everyone would have +19 (1600^0.4) to their bonuses from leadership? Why change this from the current soldier advantage which only affects adjacent players?

Example only; and if a 30 square sector would have this bonus so what? You need 30 people to choose the same thing in order to achieve such extreme.

Why change ANY current class advantage? I really don't see how you could think that the worker bonus is too powerful and needs to be nerfed to affect towers only and the advent bonus is underpowered and needs to have a better chance of working.

I am not asking you to understand how I think, that would be too much to ask of a narrow minded ghoul like yourself. I obviously think all these abilities would be tried in beta by many players over a period extensive enough to allow changes and tweak everything as it should be in order to not be over-powered or underpowered.
Don't take me for a fool, I will not spend a whole day or more in order to tweak everything, to think of everything just for later to find forum trolls to disagree for the pleasure of doing it.

Then the special tier shouldn't be a tier, just individual advantages.

My Idea, I presented it as I saw it in the mind's eye. I put it in the tier so that you can only have one of those advantages in any given moment and not all of them at once.

Why would it change? I see nothing in the suggestion that says anything of the sort.

Forward thinkers are required here, which excludes you obviously, but your opinion is noted.

I disagree if every class can have soldier hp.

You'll disagree to anything with no reasoning.
If you pick extra HP, you can't have any of these:
- Tactic bonus (+50% tactic skills)
- Speed (+50% map speed when mounted)
- Duel motivation (increases 50% faster)
- Product Master (increases the chance for a job to drop a product by 30%)
- Battle Ghost (30% chance to ghost the remaining round in a battle after 2 hits/dodged-shots)
- Sniper (+10% chance to score critical damage(10% from max hp) in a fort battle)
- Tower Specialist (+30% chance to hit and dodge when mounted a tower in battle)

Question for you: Have you grasped the concept of the idea or you just picked individual sentences and went "AHAM!, well that's just stupid!, Look, I found another thing that I think it's stupid, you know what, the whole thing is stupid! Let's bash it completly as I do not agree with it one bit" ?

Are you capable of constructive criticism and a wee bit of humility?

thats why the hp bonus should be nerfed as well.

Actually coming to think of it, having different classes has no use actually if you implement this system lol

maybe its smarter to give every class 2 fixed bonusses that other classes can't posses, thus still making a class special

but also give like 4 tiers or so to choose off

Everything should be tweaked, as you cans ee I gave some examples, tier2, 3, 4 and mabe other tiers are not even filled, it would take me ages to find bonuses so I took the ones we already have roughly. I'm not selling a solution here, but an Idea.

The point was not to have different classes, maybe you missed is but it's there: "This is not a typical RPG where you have different classes as in races, orc, elf, human etc ... just cowboys and cowgirls. "

All those tier benefits stated above are already in the game in the shape of the buffs. Maybe there are or arrent enough buffs but they do give certain advantages.

I am talking about something completely different that you. Actual "class" abilities are permanent and not influenced by your skill points, health, ability to play the game and so on. Can a buff approximate that?

 

[DeletedUser]

Forward thinkers are required here, which excludes you obviously, but your opinion is noted.

Nice, personal attack. I wasn't bashing the idea, I was questioning specific aspects of it. This specific reply was to Gandalf re: premium. I saw nothing to suggest that premium character advantage would no longer affect the bonus, unless I just missed it. Even if I DID miss it, I'm sure that's how it would be implemented since it's the only premium that large numbers of FFs use. As to your reply about the sector bonus option, it is far from the strongest FF advantage and it would be ridiculous to nerf that while leaving hp bonuses and crits as is.

 

[DeletedUser30224]

Well Elmyr, all of those options I took from game, maybe I got some wrong, I wasn't really copy-pasting from the game, it's what I could think of. The point was the general idea of having the ability to choose from.

The tiers are only there so that the abilities are grouped together and mutually exclusive forcing you to choose just one and miss on the others, can't have it all. Again, the idea not the details on which abilities would be there.

It will take a large brainstorming and couple of weeks testing to sort through the tiers, I do not have time to think of everything and frankly would be almost pointless as the devs would change it anyhow. I was thinking that the player community can even find all the desired options and smoother it up for the devs if it would grow legs.

 

[Ripwise]

I like the idea Zd3no, dont get me wrong

This tier system could be made so it goes like a tree with fixed choice at the beggining like FF, work or dueling and expand from that into more smaller tiers with specific "buff" and so on until lvl 120. I know tree tier type sounds cliche but its the one i could think off.

If one chooses FF then all next tier choices can be only FF related. Mix beetwen tiers would take away specific skilling or building of characters thus overpowering character.

You can go ahead and correct me if im babbling incoherently

 

[DeletedUser]

Great idea!! Lets vote!

 

[DeletedUser]

I really like it though it needs a lot of balancing. For instance, I think Sniper and Battle Leader should be in the same tier. These two combined would be an overkill. :laugh:

 

[DeletedUser]

If the leader bonus was in the first tier no one would use it, but yeah, like I said it is overpowered as it is now. He said it only would be if everyone used it, but it's the only FF bonus in the 2nd tier atm, so everybody WOULD use it. [Maybe if it were replaced with two tier 2 bonuses, hiding and stamina, so it's just an attacking or defending bonus. The hiding bonus would generally be in smaller sectors, but the stamina bonus would be for people on the ground shooting at towers, plus pure strength fort fighters generally have more stamina to begin with. Or aim and dodging.]

 

[Ripwise]

If the leader bonus was in the first tier no one would use it, but yeah, like I said it is overpowered as it is now. He said it only would be if everyone used it, but it's the only FF bonus in the 2nd tier atm, so everybody WOULD use it. [Maybe if it were replaced with two tier 2 bonuses, hiding and stamina, so it's just an attacking or defending bonus. The hiding bonus would generally be in smaller sectors, but the stamina bonus would be for people on the ground shooting at towers, plus pure strength fort fighters generally have more stamina to begin with. Or aim and dodging.]

The thing i was thinking is we have 3 main tiers like FF, duel and work. Once you choose 1st tier then in 2nd tier you can choose any of the advantages beetwen FF, duel and work tier while in 3rd tier there is no more mixing beetwen them, for example: In 1st tier you choose FF and bonus of 1%+ of total hp for every 10 levels then in 2nd tier you can choose for example from workers 2nd tier in which you would choose 5% in product drop but in 3rd tier you can no longer choose from dueler and worker tiers but you need to stay on initial FF tier because you choosed it as your main path. With this people who skill strictly to do one thing would have more diversity in doing stuff which otherwise they would have trouble doing.

Examples of bonuses are first that came to my mind and there is a lot of thinking needed to design tiers so they would be balanced.

The current power of tiers that zd3no introduced are to strong considering that bonuses already of certain classes bring great advantage especially if premium so it would need to be rethinked to balance it more.

Note: FF, dueler and worker is how people currently skill and not character classes.

I compiled this and its pretty much confusing i know but i think it should give an idea what i wanted to say.

Feedback is welcome but go easy on me

 

[DeletedUser]

Too limiting. I think the idea is to get more advantages you'd actually use instead of just getting different ones you don't.

 

[Ripwise]

I made a tree chart in trial program but it should give a rough idea.

TIER CHART

I made it here until lvl 60 and imagined that till that level it would be 4 tiers while lvl 80 and 100 would have three tiers and at lvl 120 two tiers. The chart goes just verticaly because i dont know how they should be connected horizontaly because i guess it depends on the advantage certain tier gives.

There is a lot of work coming up with advantages to fill every tier but i think this way(with that many tiers) we should have great diversity in building our characters.

I also imagined there would be stackable and fixed tier advantages:

Example of stackable tier advantage: tier 1 at lvl 20 has advantage of 2% total hp per every 20 lvls meaning when it stacks to lvl 120 it would be 12% total hp.

Example of fixed tier advantage: tier 2 at lvl 20 gives +1 fort attack and that one would be +1 even at lvl 120.

I think there are many here who could contribute by telling what advantages would be in tier but keep in mind it has to be realistic and balanced.

 

[DeletedUser30224]

If the leader bonus was in the first tier no one would use it, but yeah, like I said it is overpowered as it is now. He said it only would be if everyone used it, but it's the only FF bonus in the 2nd tier atm, so everybody WOULD use it. [Maybe if it were replaced with two tier 2 bonuses, hiding and stamina, so it's just an attacking or defending bonus. The hiding bonus would generally be in smaller sectors, but the stamina bonus would be for people on the ground shooting at towers, plus pure strength fort fighters generally have more stamina to begin with. Or aim and dodging.]

Point well made, time for some serious rework on the tiers. I'll try to fill them in completely tonight and pay much more attention towards keeping a balance. The initial tiers were just an example and since the stage is set and the idea started to grow little legs, time to get serious.