You are talking about making rules that would only get broken and possibly not be enforced? Is seems to me that starts down a bad road. Next there could be rules about getting banned for attacking a worker. Seems to me that if you want easy exp that is the way to go anyway. Then as soon as you make your run just quit the town you are in until you are rested up and join again. There will always be ways to "cheat". There is always going to be someone that believes what is happening to them is unfair. Maybe I am biased because I already feel like I started playing the three worlds I play just late enough that I will never catch up to the leaders. I am ok with that. I have even purchased two weeks worth of premiums. Why? To see what it is all about. Premium users still get an advantage because extended energy up to 150. Or being able to cue up four things in automation, or seeing what jobs are available to you, or making higher wages. Premium users get more benefits than non. What is a law that is not enforced? Words
Thankyou and agree strongly. Premium user benefits far outweigh any power-levelling/fixing fights, a "poor mans" subsitute.
Ridiculous. I'm pretty sure harassing members, using extremely obscene language or hateful speech.. etc etc, any of that stuff, cannot be blocked by programming (blocking a player is not the same here), yet it is prohibited behavior. Social rules DO exist and they have a right to, I really don't understand where you're coming from in thinking that they don't or shouldn't.
As Hell explained very eloquently, programming can't block everything.
Once again however you did not address the actual issue of whether you think this behavior should be allowed or not..
And Denise is right, Inno would not make this a rule if they did not plan to enforce it, simple as that.. and as Denise also said, the less we know about the mechanisms they use to enforce it, the less people are able to circumvent the systems.
If you read again please what he said, If the game mechanics(coding) cannot guarantee this form of control, why pretend to?
Each player bring his/her own social rules to the game and is usually not compounded by the game rules. They will follow there own rules.
But he did address the issue. Everyone knows that being a jerk is not socially acceptable. Yet, jerks there are a-plenty. I just don't think there are any unseen advantages this dueling thing. I think you can power level in this game just by knowing what to go for in regards to quests, ie reading west stats and knowing every product that you will need in order to complete your character class line of quests. It seems to me that the whole premise of this power leveling through dueling is based on having 30 co conspirators in order to make it work. That seems highly unlikely. And to think how much time it already took for the co conspirators to rank up high enough to be able to even give decent experience gains.
Besides, in this method there are no money gains and there are no special item gains. The player that completes quests and does high end jobs will always come out ahead both in money and experience. And I guess thirdly in special items.
I guess ultimately I am saying that yes, this behavior should be allowed but not socially acceptable. But anybody that does this would already know that it is not socially acceptable. So what is the real point? Where there is a will there is a way.
Please see the answer above.
Warnings have been given about the flaming of this thread already. Please do not flame, get personal, or insult. Please stick to the discussion or it will be locked. I encourage this sort of discussion, however when it gets aggressive it is a shame because we will all lose out. This is a definite hot topic for me at the moment.
I apologise, I waded into the thick of this discussion with some strong feelings.
Romelis is not my favorite person as I am not his. I do have to say this though. I don't know if Romelis does this. I do know that he does not have to. He is one tough soldier and I double dare anybody to take him on in a fight. So there, I did my good deed for the day.
Titus, I'm glad you read the entire thread. Yes, it is just a game. A game some people spend money to play (I don't). They don't want to see behavior they feel is taking advantage of a loophole in game mechanics to be allowed to go on. All those players paying for nuggets might just decide not to spend the money to enhance their character when other players are simply fixing fights in order to get ahead in the game. Sort of takes the fun out of trying to be #1 (if that is what you are aiming for) when you are competing with cheaters.
Premium users enjoy a higher benefit than our workarounds.
This is a role playing game. As such some people can chose to be cheaters. It was part of the west and should be part of the game. I have no qualms about attacking any player because I want to be an outlaw. I am BAD. I would steal from you given half a chance. That is why I became a dueler. As far as rigging a fight, well, that happened too. Yes it should be discouraged but it will happen. There would be another way. Ethics shouldn't matter in an RPG. If you want ethics, have them and hope people follow. Either they will or they won't.
If an RPG is linear than its not an RPG. It has to be open-ended enviroment.
You're right about the ability for administration to determine if somebody is farming or not being dependent on what type of logs/information is available to them about every player (as I said in my original post), but it does not require all the information you've listed and is not as complex as you're making it out to be. The ideas I have come up with myself would require a little programming, and a little more storage depending on which idea they went with, but not much of either.
There is, do a search for all duel reports, looking for duellers without weapons. But then youll have duellers with no hats and weapons, etc
my stance is, "if you cant assure by programming that this would not happen, you should not prohibid it by rules" as someone wisely stated, monitoring forums is easier that game.
If the game will spread, more and more ppl will be playing it, im pretty sure inno will take note to this problem, but im pretty sure now they are occupied of developing the game to what was promised.
Maybe there can be other incentives to give greater xp rewards?
It is a problem but a minor problem at that, especially at mid-later levels?
So my money is on Innogames improving the game and updates.
The funny thing about game enforcement is when it is actually done you get less of the accompanying activity. Therefore to minimize it all you need to do is start punishing some of its participants.
BTW "Mavimus" I said exactly what I meant and you could obviously understand my "babbling"", since you so vehemently railed against it, so does that say something about you or me? I do not know if maybe you jest or are just not very knowledgeable, but the "smell test" is a common phrase, look it up, duuh.
If you punish people for trying to get ahead than youll fail. Better to rehabilitate and gently nudge in another direction.
I could draw parallels with life.
And punishing people who voluntarily out if their own valuable time subscribe to this game, what do you think will happen?
"Don’t do something just because you are convinced you have the right to do so, if it doesn’t pass the smell test"
As to the rest of your reply I believe you are being esoteric? In which case I wouldnt pass your smell test.
Guys this thread is for you to give your opinions, you are the ones that bought up the subject of unfair duelling when people remove their clothes and/or weapons. What we want now is your thoughts regarding this so that an informed decision can be made regarding a way forward.
If you continue the flaming and talking offtopic then you wont get an input into what is right and wrong, and any possible rule changes or new ones being implemented in order to make the game fairer for all.
The choice is yours regarding your involvement in this discussion.
Sorry yet again.
Let's discuss what ideas people may have about programming/scripting, ways and means to alleviate some of the 'human' work associated with policing this particular behavior.
You want to police this behaviour? On a minority of people?
So the only objections I've seen to making a rule against power leveling are:
1. People will be jerks and cheat anyways
2. People cheated in the real west
3. You can't catch everybody through scripting
4. It would be too hard to catch people
Well I really don't think those are good enough reasons not to try. Especially when the majority of players feel that power leveling shouldn't be done. Every other trumped up reason has been dismissed or proven to be hogwash so far. I think anyone that is power leveling may want to get ready for some changes in the game. This thread may be serving as your warning notice that Inno and staff are taking the matter seriously.
Iggy, you think it would be hard to get several people to participate in something like power leveling? Let's just say that in the top 30 duelers of one of the worlds I play, 10 of them are from the same town (actually 2 towns but they operate as 1). I am not saying they all do it or that even 9 of them do it. I can tell you that their founder got on these forums and admitted to doing it. So if he is doing it at least one other person in his town is doing it as well. That would be the logical assumption to make since he has to have a partner in crime. If two of them are doing it and getting away with it and others in their town realize how easy it is then it would be logical to assume that others have done it as well.
Logic was good but then it turned to conjecture and improper accusation of a whole town.
So what would the control be for catching somebody power leveling? I have a soldier. I want to level as fast as I can. I put all skill points in a certain order to get best job and still be effective dueler. I gain fairly fast. To supplement I duel towns where I can beat everyone in that town. Why? I am a dueler bully. What's the difference between their actions and mine? Am I going to get banned for attacking a player? Farming farmers so to speak? I am a bandit. That is what I do. From the outside looking at my character, I make good money and I am leveling fairly fast so let's flag him and ban him or whatever? Or, I have a town I am friends with, sometimes we duel each other to see where we are at, new weapons and so forth, are we going to get flagged for that? We put all our money in the bank first and went at it twice to see about soldier gains and what not. Is that kind of experimentation going to be frowned upon too? Or is the ultimate goal to make a rule and find out what exceptions to the rule after in an appeal process, you know, guilty until proven innocent.
I agree strongly.
Scripting and staff would be looking for evidence beyond a reasonable doubt, not just anything they can hang someone with. They don't want to ban or inhibit anyones game play. They just want to make sure that the people who are causing an imbalance in the game through an oversight of the developers will not be able to continue to do so.
How will they do that if not banning them?
Give them a list of players they have duelled in the past for farming and then telling them you may not ever duel these people again, ever!