Demand, item/item offers and alliance/world access to shops in town

Proposal (1)
Add demand tab to market.

Current Workaround
For now you have to ask players if they have your desired items by telegram or via town/alliance/world forum and then discuss about the price. With this tab you inform others about want item you are looking for and how much you willing to pay for it.
Details
This tab enable the players to ask for the item that they need with some price. There should be an option to show that if she wants the item at special market/town or she will pick up the item where ever it be.

Abuse Prevention
No abusable. Currently people do it via telegram/forum.


Visual Aids
Not good with Visual stuff

Summary
All demand section to market. This tab enable people to search for what other people wants to buy with their desired price.


Administration
Does this idea meet the Ideas Guidelines & Criteria? Yes.
Does this idea appear on any of the Previously Suggested Ideas List? I don't know.



Proposal (2)
Add a tab for item to item trade in market. Even if it be just for products.

Current Workaround
The players have to sell their items an buy what they need. With item to item trade you just gain the item(s) that you require for the cost of what you do not need or have extra.

Details
In this tab players will offer item to item exchange. Like offering 5x wood for 3x puma. When someone will set the offer the item(s) will remove from his inventory and to accept the offer someone should be at the same towm/market to deliver the item and pick up the exchange.

Abuse Prevention
No abusable. Currently players do more or less the same (mainly via alliance market) by selling some products with lowest possible price and in return they get some other product with lowest possible price.

Visual Aids
No good in this section.

Summary
An a tab in market for item to item (or product to product) trade.

Administration
Does this idea meet the Ideas Guidelines & Criteria? Yes.
Does this idea appear on any of the Previously Suggested Ideas List? Don't know.




Proposal (3)
Selling the items of stores in town in market.

Current Workaround
For now you have to search the TW-DB to find the towns with your desired items and then you have to find some town in alliance or some nice people via chat/forum/telegram to buy the item from the market and put it on market for you.


Details
This option enable the town founders/councillors to add the Tailor/Gunsmith/General store items to town market. It will solve the "foreign purchase issue" which lead to some failed suggestion like "bypass foreign purchase prices". There should be an option to determine whether the items will be available just for alliance or everyone.

Other people (alliance members or everyone due to option used) will be able to pay the item price (not 4x) + market fees to get the items from shop instead of leaving their town to join another or asking someone to buy it and put in on market.

Optional: 1% or 2% of item price could be added to final price and the interest goes to town treasury.

Abuse Prevention
Not abusable.

Visual Aids
Not good at this. HELP ME!

Summary
Give the option


Administration
Does this idea meet the Ideas Guidelines & Criteria? Yes/No
Does this idea appear on any of the Previously Suggested Ideas List? I don't know. I know some other suggestion to bypass the foreigner for shopping was failed. Hope this do not.

Please check below and edit your post to meet with the posting guidelines for this section just to be sure you have covered all bases.

Proposal

In a few sentences, state the general concept of your idea.

Current Workaround

If there is method players have used to work around the current system? (For example shopping is used to bypass foreign purchase prices.)

Details

State the bulk of your idea. Remember to include all necessary details, mechanics and explanations of your idea.

Abuse Prevention

If there are any loopholes in your proposal state what your idea has done to close them.

Visual Aids

Put any mock-ups here. Those that are large screenshots should be linked, smaller windows can be displayed using the image tags.

Summary

General rap up and thoughts. Should include why the Innogames and the player community will benefit from implementing this idea.

Administration

Does this idea meet the Ideas Guidelines & Criteria? Yes/No
Does this idea appear on any of the Previously Suggested Ideas List? Yes/No

And already submitted with Minor Ideas #11

DashAkol said:

(1) Demand on the market:

For now you can just offer in the market: Put what you like to sell with your desired price.

I have this idea to enable players to ask for their desired item/product with some price.
When you want to set a demand on the market you could have two option: Ask to receive your desired item on your town market or any other market. Like the current market you should have the option to set your demand just for town members, alliance or everyone.

I believe this will reduce the price in market hugely or at least balance the price between different worlds.

Click to expand...

+1 from me. Already submitted like Elmyr said, but that was quite a while ago.

DashAkol said:

(2) Enable item/item offers:

This will help specially with crafting products: Asking for 10 pan for 12 charcoal.

Also some people could not do some special jobs while they need the product of that job for crafting. This will give them the option to work on other jobs and trade the product with that they need.

Click to expand...

I don't really see the point of this unless both parties are absolutely strapped for cash. You can easily just sell the products to each other for the same amount of cash, and the time it takes to do so is not even noticeably longer than the time it would take to do an item-item trade.

DashAkol said:

(3) This idea is about selling items from shops in town (Tailor/Gunsmith/General Store) on the market. I read some idea about selling a ticket to foreigners to buy items from the shops while they do not have access to town forum and they do not need to leave town doing the shopping.

This option on market will enable the founders of town to sell the items available on their town shops on the market with some interest. Interest could be a percent of item price (5% or 10%) or just fix amount (100$ or 200$) and it will go to town treasury.

Click to expand...

Again, this is only useful if every single member of the town is absolutely strapped for cash. Any town member can currently buy an item from their town and list it on the market for somebody outside of their town. This suggestion, like the previous one, would not even be noticeably shorter than the current method. In fact, you'd probably still get more people doing it the normal way using any town citizen rather than waiting for a founder to be online. Also, 5% or 10% of proceeds going to the town treasury is a highly insignificant amount.

I'll say yes to the first one, and no to the second two.

Is is good now?

Elmyr said:

And already submitted with Minor Ideas #11

Click to expand...

That was like 2 years ago. Lets see what this turns into.

DashAkol said:

Is is good now?

Click to expand...

Yes, its okey.

I agree strongly to part 1.
Disagree with part 2.
Indifferent to part 3, would lean to disagreeing.

Part 2: Items and products have a minimal sale value, if you allow trading item for item, then you either have to put this into consideration or simply abandon the whole idea. Another thing might be avoidance of pushing...you might argue that exchanging 3 diamonds for Jesse Jame's pistol is fair trade, I would disagree.

Proposal one will be really helpful. In my example, I faced a problem. I wanted to sell a 3rd key but was worried to list up in market because of high market fees. But if I would've known someone who're in need of a 3rd key then I could've easily sold it.

Thanks DashAkol for pointing it out and hope developers will add this feature.

zd3no said:

I agree strongly to part 1.
Disagree with part 2.
Indifferent to part 3, would lean to disagreeing.

Part 2: Items and products have a minimal sale value, if you allow trading item for item, then you either have to put this into consideration or simply abandon the whole idea. Another thing might be avoidance of pushing...you might argue that exchanging 3 diamonds for Jesse Jame's pistol is fair trade, I would disagree.

Click to expand...

About the pushing it can happen right now with current system. Can't it?
The same mechanism that can check/punish the pushing in current system would work with item to item trades too. Won't it?

Do you call selling/buying an uncut diamond for 4K pushing? I have some of those and I want to sell them for 4K/pcs, your choice to buy them or not. If someone buy them he is pushing me? No.
What about if someone has an extra Jesse James' Schofield and do not need the cash to sell it on market for +200K or 500K. He has a buddy that played with him for more than 1 year and he realize that his buddy is searching for the gun, is it pushing to give the Jesse's gun to him for 11K? Surely no. Then what's wrong with trade 3 diamond for Jesse? If someone has Jesse and want to give it away for 3 diamond let him do it.


P.S. As I mentioned item to item trade could be just for products or even just for crafted items.

Very well, then imagine this:
trading 10 tobacco for 10 bags of loot.
One rusty Sheffield for one Jesse Jame's.
One bow for one Natty's rifle

and so on.

Is there anything wrong with them? Not at all, friends do this all the time, they never ask for 1 million from another friend, that's just stupid, but now look at it from another perspective: which one of those transfers is an attempt to push and which one isn't?

You will be just making life harder for the moderators. If there is someone offering 40k for a tobacco, you immediately know it's a push, a money transfer, if you see a transfer of 10 tobacco for 10 bags of loot ?

You know what I mean now?

In any case, I'm not persuading you to change my view on the situation, I think I'm standing on pretty solid ground here, that doesn't necessarily mean I am right either. If it will come to a vote, that is the way I will vote.

1# - Yeah, that would be nice.

2# - You need to add what zd3no has pointed out in the abuse prevention. That way, if the dev's like the idea, they will have to update the moderators tools, so they can monitor it.
But I highly doubt it will be accepted since it rubs sides with the pushing rule. We'll see how it goes.

3# - Yeah, sure. Id vote for that. The reasoning for asking moronic prices for items bought in other town shops were lost when the market was added in the game.
Now it just requires an annoying workaround.

zd3no said:

Very well, then imagine this:
trading 10 tobacco for 10 bags of loot.
One rusty Sheffield for one Jesse Jame's.
One bow for one Natty's rifle

and so on.

Is there anything wrong with them? Not at all, friends do this all the time, they never ask for 1 million from another friend, that's just stupid, but now look at it from another perspective: which one of those transfers is an attempt to push and which one isn't?

You will be just making life harder for the moderators. If there is someone offering 40k for a tobacco, you immediately know it's a push, a money transfer, if you see a transfer of 10 tobacco for 10 bags of loot ?

You know what I mean now?

In any case, I'm not persuading you to change my view on the situation, I think I'm standing on pretty solid ground here, that doesn't necessarily mean I am right either. If it will come to a vote, that is the way I will vote.

Click to expand...

Your point of view about pushing does not come from item to item trade. Of course item to item trade can be abused to push but that's not the point here because in the current shopping system that can happen too.

Maybe even in item to item trade pushing can be traced much easier.

Rebow said:

2# - You need to add what zd3no has pointed out in the abuse prevention. That way, if the dev's like the idea, they will have to update the moderators tools, so they can monitor it.
But I highly doubt it will be accepted since it rubs sides with the pushing rule. We'll see how it goes.

Click to expand...

As I said before the item to item trade could be just for crafted items and/or products. That might cover you and zd3no concern about pushing.

What now? Should I request for a poll or some mod will do it automatically?

I'm so sick of searching for some regular items in the market and see that the price is almost 1.5 times of the actual price.

I did not see any negative comment on first and third idea, How should I ask for a poll?

DashAkol said:

I did not see any negative comment on first and third idea, How should I ask for a poll?

Click to expand...

Uhh, first idea...

Elmyr said:

And already submitted with Minor Ideas #11

Click to expand...

Elmyr said:

And already submitted with Minor Ideas #11

Click to expand...

Rebow said:

That was like 2 years ago. Lets see what this turns into.

Click to expand...

Elmyr said:

Uhh, first idea...

Click to expand...

What about last one?

I see some negative feedback for Idea 3:

futurama1001 said:

Again, this is only useful if every single member of the town is absolutely strapped for cash. Any town member can currently buy an item from their town and list it on the market for somebody outside of their town. This suggestion, like the previous one, would not even be noticeably shorter than the current method. In fact, you'd probably still get more people doing it the normal way using any town citizen rather than waiting for a founder to be online. Also, 5% or 10% of proceeds going to the town treasury is a highly insignificant amount.

I'll say yes to the first one, and no to the second two.

Click to expand...

It wouldn't be a bad thing to have, so I wouldn't even call the above negative feedback. I just think it's unnecessary as it works fine as it is. If you're looking for a specific item from a town's store, you ask a member of that town to put it on the market, you don't just open the market and expect one to be there for purchase price.

futurama1001 said:

I see some negative feedback for Idea 3:



It wouldn't be a bad thing to have, so I wouldn't even call the above negative feedback. I just think it's unnecessary as it works fine as it is. If you're looking for a specific item from a town's store, you ask a member of that town to put it on the market, you don't just open the market and expect one to be there for purchase price.

Click to expand...

I think you did not understand the idea correctly. With this option all the items from all shops in a town will become available also on market with just some extra cash as market fee automatically.

You do not need to ask anyone for anything.
For example the founder can mark the settings so that all the items from shops become available to all alliance members(or for anyone). So every person from that alliance can see 1 piece from every item of town shops in the market but not any player from other alliances. And if someone buy a piece (like Mexican bandana) another piece (Mexican bandana) will replace it automatically.

DashAkol said:

I think you did not understand the idea correctly. With this option all the items from all shops in a town will become available also on market with just some extra cash as market fee automatically.

You do not need to ask anyone for anything.
For example the founder can mark the settings so that all the items from shops become available to all alliance members(or for anyone). So every person from that alliance can see 1 piece from every item of town shops in the market but not any player from other alliances. And if someone buy a piece (like Mexican bandana) another piece (Mexican bandana) will replace it automatically.

Click to expand...

I see what you mean now, but reading over it again I can also see why I interpreted it how I did. I think a feature such as this would defeat the purpose of having town shops at all. You might as well just lower the 4x fee of shop items if you're going to make them all readily available at any time. It's probably a bigger no now than it was before.