Land Battles

Proposal

I'd like to propose the idea of Land Battles which would be open to all players whether they are in a town or not. Several land battle areas would be included on the map and the rewards for these battles would be UP Bonds, xp and cash but could also give special achievements or titles.

Details

Land Battles would work in a similar way to fort battles with each side moving in turn.
Any player can call a Land Battle but once a battle is called, another cannot be called for six hours. The battle would take place 24 hrs after being called to allow people to get there, but there could be some shorter timescales used as well. The battle caller can choose from several different scenarios including capture the flag, last man standing etc and possibly different terrain choices or maps.

Battle maps would have various terrain features dependent on the map chosen, but would include buildings and terrain features or sectors that give positive and negative bonuses in a similar way that current fort battles do.

When a Land Battle has been called any player can join, but the server places participants in random sides to ensure that the fight is balanced in Health terms. Players can join from anywhere on the map. All players start with full health and there would be a limit on how many land battles a player can attend in a set period. Health lost would not be deducted from a players health total at the end of the battle to encourage more players to attend, but there would be a cost of participating to players in the form of energy.

Once the battle has finished, the battle area is unavailable for 24 hrs, but unlike fort battles, there is no ownership of these areas.

Abuse Prevention

Hopefully this is covered above.

Visual Aids

None I'm afraid. Perhaps someone can oblige

Summary

Land battles would allow ALL players to participate in large scale battles and would give players the ability to have battles from the start of a new world. It would add another element of fun to the game and of course, we get to shoot at our friends as well as our enemies

It should be possible to adapt the present fort system to accommodate land battles.

Administration
Does this idea meet the Ideas Guidelines & Criteria? Yes/No
Does this idea appear on any of the Previously Suggested Ideas List? Yes/No

sounds interesting. will there be new icons for these land battles? how many locations will there be? i think the most likely outcome for this idea, assuming it passes, will be integration into the fort battle system or maybe replacing it.

what's the greater gain?

More customization. Each map would be different and I assume the owners of an area would be able to 'build' sectors with varying amounts of positive/negative bonuses, changing the gameplay up for every battle.

The biggest problem I see (besides what Hellstromm said, which would need to be hammered out) is conflict with fort battles, especially if the rewards are comparable.

I like the concept. Like Elmyr stated it cant detract from fort battles because the playing community is not large enough to accomodate both on the same scale, but a "quick battle" of some sort would be a good addition to the game. The no ownership of property is good to not detract from forts, but how are the points divided? You could have no monetary reward, only experience and maybe the last man standing gets bonds or box drops for highest scorers etc.

If you could whip one up in an hour that would be the best option, maybe 2 hours, but no more than X amount per server day or only 1 every 4 hours or so.

From a developer perspective if this went through they could release it with just the one terrain type to start with and add options later. The person digging then can choose the terrain option. Maybe the first one could be town, then rocks, ghost town, etc. As Ive stated before the fort battle engine could always be modified/hacked chopped/converted etc to take on something new like this.

If you wanted to look at it in terms of the greater gain, do you allocate a new points column in the ranking system for the town, badges and achievements? Im sure that part is probably the easiest to work out.

one very interesting idea in this, besides the random objects and obstacles, would be very small sections, controlling areas, allowing for a lot of creative section-control tactics.

But again, what's the gain? For it to work, it needs something to gain. Perhaps treat such a win as a separate win point added to a town's win counts... maybe one point added to a town's total counts for each member in a fort win, or better yet, a side count (all fighters on one side vs all fighters on the other side), with the winning side splitting this count for the opposing side. Thus encouraging even troop counts, or powerful small groups against larger, yet weaker, groups. Powerful small groups have more points to gain in a win. A nice set of numbers could be 2 points per participant.

Example:

Attacker side A - 30 characters = 60 potential points
Attacker side B - 50 characters = 100 potential points.

if Attacker side A wins, they split 100 points (3.3 points each character, rounded to 3 points each character). if attacker side B wins, they split 60 total points (1 point to each character). These points are then added to their town's total points.

Just one example of a gain as motivation for townships to participate other than selfish goals...

Reading this and remembering some other things from this forum I came up with an idea that goes something like this...

Lets call it town-raids...

Anyone (including townless players) can attack a town - the time from call to battle could be as short as 1 hour, each side can muster troops depending on the points of the town (say 1 defender for every 1-2000 town points and something like 20% more for the attackers), the layout of the battle field is decided on the new town-layouts (that are planned), each round starts with a duel where the duelers are either picked at random from each side (or if someone steps up, in first come first serve basis).

The attackers would start as far away from the town hall as possible and then some, and the defenders on the half of the town closest to the town hall (so that the attackers do stand a chance to fortify themselves in the outer buildings of the town).

Winning conditions for the attackers could be holding the square outside of the town hall for 5 rounds and for defenders to last as many rounds as the maximum allowed number of defenders +10 - but since everyone is forced into a duel (unless they die first) this is not very likely to happen.

The rewards would have to be proportional to the quality of the battle (wrt to participants and possibly rounds of the battle), the battle would cause some (already promised) deterioration of the buildings according to the number of missed shots on/around a building.

Possible rewards...
- items from the shops
- small parts of the town treasury (more put here for completeness - I know it wont happen)
- bonds
- energy and health buffs
- instant LP buffs for construction for the defenders (being motivated to rebuild their town...)

Ok, just putting it out here, feel free to ignore it or if the OP feels I hijacked their thread I will remove it and put it in it's own thread.

/Edlit

I think that game needs something like Land Battles. It will make it more interesting and challenging. The game must be improved in its context. There could be also added tournaments for duellers. Just duelling, fort battles and crafting are boring. We need something else that would require skills, not just HP.

The devs say they have a 'new multiplayer event' thing planned.....it better come soon or we vote several of these ideas through.

Edlit, I think there would need to be a completely new game mechanic to accommodate that feature, so I'd hold off on that for now.

HS, that points things sounds interesting.

Edlit, when you include town raids in terms of raiding an actual town and removing or destroying things of value in a town, it makes it complicated from a development point of view. However if its land battles with different terrain options, one of those could be a town layout. Not a specific town, a town layout with buildings as cover etc. In the rocks layout, the terrain map would again be different. I think this is what the original thought here was. Then it doesnt incorporate an existing component of the game and coding would be easier ... as such

In saying that though, the next step in the development could be to then take that terrain layout and tie it to existing towns.

As rice said there is some concept floating around in Inno for a multi player feature. They may already have something mapped out, but this could be better

Edlit said:

Reading this and remembering some other things from this forum I came up with an idea that goes something like this...

Lets call it town-raids...

Anyone (including townless players) can attack a town - the time from call to battle could be as short as 1 hour, each side can muster troops depending on the points of the town (say 1 defender for every 1-2000 town points and something like 20% more for the attackers), the layout of the battle field is decided on the new town-layouts (that are planned), each round starts with a duel where the duelers are either picked at random from each side (or if someone steps up, in first come first serve basis).

The attackers would start as far away from the town hall as possible and then some, and the defenders on the half of the town closest to the town hall (so that the attackers do stand a chance to fortify themselves in the outer buildings of the town).

Winning conditions for the attackers could be holding the square outside of the town hall for 5 rounds and for defenders to last as many rounds as the maximum allowed number of defenders +10 - but since everyone is forced into a duel (unless they die first) this is not very likely to happen.

The rewards would have to be proportional to the quality of the battle (wrt to participants and possibly rounds of the battle), the battle would cause some (already promised) deterioration of the buildings according to the number of missed shots on/around a building.

Possible rewards...
- items from the shops
- small parts of the town treasury (more put here for completeness - I know it wont happen)
- bonds
- energy and health buffs
- instant LP buffs for construction for the defenders (being motivated to rebuild their town...)

Ok, just putting it out here, feel free to ignore it or if the OP feels I hijacked their thread I will remove it and put it in it's own thread.

/Edlit

Click to expand...

I am not so sure about the idea of the OP but the one above gets a huge NO from me. This game will become just like Tribal Wars if the above idea is ever implemented and those towns with only 1 or 2 players will not stand a chance. They will either have to go townless entirely or they will have to join a town with more people in it (At least 4 or 5 people). This will result in less towns which means less items to buy from those towns which means more hunting around the markets or the wandering trader in order to find what items you want or need. Not to mention the destruction of a lot of towns and the loss of the treasury money in those towns which could have been spent on building upgrades or maintenance (Which unfortunately is coming in the next version).

Red Falcon said:

I am not so sure about the idea of the OP but the one above gets a huge NO from me. This game will become just like Tribal Wars if the above idea is ever implemented and those towns with only 1 or 2 players will not stand a chance. They will either have to go townless entirely or they will have to join a town with more people in it (At least 4 or 5 people). This will result in less towns which means less items to buy from those towns which means more hunting around the markets or the wandering trader in order to find what items you want or need. Not to mention the destruction of a lot of towns and the loss of the treasury money in those towns which could have been spent on building upgrades or maintenance (Which unfortunately is coming in the next version).

Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but I don't see how you come to this conclusion...

Let me point out a few things about how I view my idea (I admit it it is not clear in my first post, as I was just trying to put it out there to continue the brainstorming).

a) Participation in these battles would be optional, just as with Fort Battles, so just because you live in the town you don't have to be there.
b) If a large group of players decide to raid a small town, either the small town will get defenders from elsewhere or the fight will be really boring to little or no gain for the attackers.
b) The treasury will not be touched (afaik inno wants to get money out of the game and keeping them in the treasuries is a good way to do that)
c) The possible deterioration will be small
d) Since it is still in brainstorming - we can as well put a limit on the towns being able to raid (like at least 5 members and 20.000 town points)

/Edlit

This thread is moving east from land battles to town battles which has been discussed previously here

http://forum.the-west.net/showthread.php?t=47117&highlight=town+raidTown Raids , Town Battles , Town Raiding, Town Brawls

To support Edlit, there could be constraint similar to duelling level where a town of 50 players cant attack a town of 3 or even a town of 10. I doubt that Inno would allow a free for all to run players out of the game.

I think land battles has more immediate development chances than town battles.

I was just going to say we discussed something similar to this concept a long time ago when I was modding this section.

Battles

rice farmer said:

More customization. Each map would be different and I assume the owners of an area would be able to 'build' sectors with varying amounts of positive/negative bonuses, changing the gameplay up for every battle.

Click to expand...

He said there would be no ownership. Hence no building or customization. Your thinking along the game "pirates" or something (some old game i used to play)where you could select to manually fight whereupon there was a set layout. you had a set amount of moves.

I would say your idea needs more work. We are thinking along the lines of:
1.Example layouts.
2. Movement.
3.Win Conditions
4. Will it remain the same as your basic fort battle.
5. props etc. For example trenches. Barbed wire . Cannons .

sorry to add my 2 cents so late - but I'd love to see this developed and added to the game!

It would be great if you could enter into 'close-combat' - i.e. have a duel with the opponent on the battlefield. You could have traditional fort fighting at distance - but when people get really close to each other you end up having duels - and the 8 shots each that you would get in a normal duel.


If we were to take fort fighting as the basis then...

Each character class keeps it's fort fighting perk

Each team sets up in a deployment zone on either side of the battle field

Zones are no longer 'controlled' and can be 'contested'

Each participent has a 'zone of control' - the 4 squares beside them (like the soldier's leadership bonus in fort fights)

Close combat starts when zones of influence overlap

Dueling should be resolved before movement (i.e. if you are in contact at the beginning of the turn you have a duel - then you can move away)

Perhaps a different turn order could be used (Duels / Movement / Shooting). With defender first in each phase.

The battlefield could be strewn with strategic points - undergrowth, trenches, vantage points - each giving bonuses to either defence or attack

etc... etc... (it's late and I need to think about it some more )

To get this to work is probably a coder's nightmare!!

Hope other people get an idea of what I am thinking!

GM

I was thinking about something like that myself, but it would be way too complicated to incorporate it into battles. I was thinking of an alternate dueling system which was like a one-on-one fort battle using dueling skills.

Elmyr said:

I was thinking about something like that myself, but it would be way too complicated to incorporate it into battles.

Click to expand...

Fair enough - I didn't think it would be easy, but one lives in hope!

Elmyr said:

I was thinking of an alternate dueling system which was like a one-on-one fort battle using dueling skills.

Click to expand...

Fort battles are something that I enjoy - but it would be strange to morph those skills into the dueling system. I can understand that fort fighters might want to duel too - but if they have specialised to that extent then surely some one who spends all their time dueling would, and currently does, kick their ass. If a fort fighter could duel with the best of them, then wouldn't fort fighting become the only viable build - leading to a pretty one dimensional game.

The land battle that I had in mind would have a place for everyone -

Pure builder who can't shoot straight... head on over to the cannon emplacement (+100 damage). If you do hit - it will hurt!
Pure hider... sit yourself in deep cover near the front lines and laugh yourself silly at all the missed shots - until they get you in close combat.
Pure shooter... head down to the trenches where they have an opposition hp tank running riot and take him down in close combat.
Resistance dueler... protect your own flanks from the opposition assault squad.
Hard-core low-motivation dueler... hit the enemy front-lines with everything you've got - just try not to get picked off by the rifles on the way.
HP Tank... protect the others from harm - just don't get too close to the opposition or they might take you out in close combat.
Ghosting Adventurer... form a skirmish line near the front - let your fort fighters take their shots.
Pure FMS... errr.... we'll find a job for you somewhere

You see it would be a bit like rock-paper-scissors! Every build would have a role to play and a means to take them down. It would mean that the battles would take on a different dimension from the fights of attrition that fort battles have become.


Also the fights could be for a strategic asset. For example a blacksmith that provides a bonus to crafting (or a decrease in failure rate); or, a cannon foundry that provides a (small) bonus in fort battles. These assets could be limited in number to, say, one or two per alliance - this would prevent one uber-alliance from owning everything! To further upset the apple-cart you could have these strategic assets only providing bonus for a short period - forcing battles on a regular basis just to keep the bonus alive...

I know it is unlikely/impossible to code this into a browser game - but I live in hope. I also haven't a clue what programming language The West is written in.... perhaps German

GM

Lots of interesting ideas there. Maybe the OP will come back and further develop this idea, since it has a lot of potential and I'd hate to see it die.